Listening to Our Sacred Activist Summons with Author and Dharmacharya in the Order of Interbeing of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh Cynthia Jurs
Reese Brown (00:55.755)
Cynthia, thank you so very much for joining me today, being here and sharing space with me. I am very excited to be having this conversation with you.
Cynthia Jurs (01:11.222)
Thank you. It's wonderful to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Reese Brown (01:14.665)
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, my first question that I always like to ask is, what are you grateful for right now?
Cynthia Jurs (01:21.506)
That's a good question. I'm grateful for the beauty of this fall in northern New Mexico where I live. The colors of the leaves on the mountain are changing and the light is so crisp and clear and all the harvest is coming in from the garden. I feel very grateful for, well, know, the most recent hurricane
Reese Brown (01:43.671)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (01:50.58)
Milton, you know, it did its damage, but it might not have been quite as bad as everybody thought. So that was something to be grateful for, for all the people who are helping in North Carolina and Tennessee and the other areas that were hit by Helene, you know, and just all those around the world who are doing their part to make this world a better place.
Reese Brown (01:55.427)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (02:16.791)
Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (02:20.224)
with blinks.
Reese Brown (02:22.051)
Absolutely. And thank you for bringing that to the forefront of the conversation. That was something that I was considering and entering this conversation with you and the importance of sacred activism and climate considerations really is a very big part of that. And I think we've seen it consistently, but arguably with this new round of hurricanes now more than ever. I think it's important to make sure we're holding space for those that are
both being affected by and doing the work to help. So thank you for bringing that. My second question is, what is your story? I know that is a large question and you have actually written most of it down. So a lot of our listeners will be able to go check out become, that is your subtitle, not the title, Summoned by the Earth, which is the book that Cynthia has written.
that is a quite beautiful book about her journey into becoming a sacred activist and really showing up in a sanctified and aligned way to try and make the world a better and more healthy place. So that will be in the description for anyone that is curious about checking out Summoned by the Earth. But anything that you're called to share about your story right now, I would absolutely love to hear.
Cynthia Jurs (03:47.714)
Well, thank you. It's why I wrote the book, because it's kind of a long story and it's a very kind of epic mythic story too. And I hope that people will pick up the book because there's a lot in it besides my own personal story. There's a lot in it about forming a relationship with the earth and in these times and responding to our own
Reese Brown (03:55.202)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (04:16.34)
inner calling, know, a sense of purpose around doing what is ours to do, right? But I guess where the book begins and where this conversation might want to begin is back in 1990 when I met this 106 year old llama living in a cave in a remote part of Nepal, the proverbial old wise man in the cave.
Reese Brown (04:23.949)
Yes.
Cynthia Jurs (04:46.442)
And I realized, you know, as I was walking up the path to meet him, that I should come up with a question that was meaningful, not just to me, but to others who would never have such a remarkable opportunity. I mean, I didn't really even realize what I was getting myself into when I, when this journey began, but I had been practicing in both the Tibetan and the Zen traditions of Buddhism.
Reese Brown (04:53.857)
Mmm.
Cynthia Jurs (05:14.894)
and then found myself on this path. And the question that I came up with was, what can we do to bring healing and protection to the earth? Because even back then, I was, and many of us were beginning to recognize the signs, you know, that the balance of life on earth in relationship to nature was, you know, becoming more and more imbalanced, more and more threatened.
Reese Brown (05:43.095)
Yes.
Cynthia Jurs (05:44.62)
So that was really what was on my heart and in my mind. that's how the book begins and where my life has taken me since asking that question. All around the world. All around the world. Yeah.
Reese Brown (06:02.549)
Absolutely. No, it's really such a beautiful place to start. But if you don't mind, I would like to go back even further and ask you how were you first introduced to the Tibetan and Zen traditions? And what drew you to those sects of Buddhism, particularly, but it's really beautiful combination.
Cynthia Jurs (06:28.844)
Thank you. Yeah, I think I was always searching, you know, as a young person, we did, we were not particularly churchgoers. And my parents always said, you're free to go and do whatever you want, you know, but they were more, I guess you would say agnostic. And, but my mother really had a connection to the earth, to nature, to the flowers and the beautiful, you know, land. And
the magic of the land. I absorbed that. My dad did too, but you know, we weren't particularly spiritual and I hungered for that. and so I was drawn to Buddhism pretty early on. kind of dabbled in this and that. And then when I started to become exposed to Buddhism, I liked it because it didn't actually ask you to believe in an external God. It was really
Reese Brown (07:07.267)
Mm.
Reese Brown (07:28.151)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (07:29.078)
to our own what is called our own Buddha nature, which is in all of us. It's our own wisdom, our own compassion, our own awakened heart and mind that the Buddha himself, which the word Buddha just means awakened one. He was historically known as Shakyamuni, Gotama Shakyamuni. But Buddha nature,
Reese Brown (07:47.873)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (07:57.27)
this awakened nature is in every single one of us. So the practice of meditation is really to come into an experience of that, which is always here. It's not out there. And I think that's really powerful and beautiful and, you know, can be meaningful to everyone, no matter what religion they're coming from. And one of my great teachers is Thich Nhat Hanh, who is a Vietnamese Zen master who always talked about,
Reese Brown (08:07.512)
Yes.
Cynthia Jurs (08:26.144)
We need to not leave our root traditions behind to become a Buddhist, but to incorporate the teachings of Buddhism in our own way. So I love that. And he also, as an early teacher of mine, talked a lot about engaged Buddhism, which is another word in a way for sacred activism.
Reese Brown (08:53.279)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (08:54.282)
I like that very much and I, you he really encouraged his students to engage their practice in a way that is meaningful to others, you know, that is in a way to make a difference in the world because, you know, we want to, you start to awaken a little bit and you realize the suffering that people and animals and plants and trees and oceans and everything else is going through, you know, needs
to be healed. And we can each contribute something to that process. But we need to engage it, you know, and not turn away. So I love that. And that's kind of how it all began and where it all led.
Reese Brown (09:26.307)
Mm.
Reese Brown (09:34.774)
Right.
Reese Brown (09:40.981)
Absolutely. No, I love that too. And I think that that is something that when I similarly was, you know, searching and really looking for these kind of spiritual avenues to explore meaning and purpose was similarly drawn to the Buddhist tradition in the way that it does allow kind of a marriage between those practices and just about anything else you could possibly imagine, because it is going back to the
inner work, which I really, really find beautiful and added layer to this being raised in Texas, a very southern United States place. Most people are Southern Baptist and Christian of some sort. Being able to engage with people from a place of loving kindness and compassion is a universal good, right?
And so being able to marry that with other. that's all right.
Cynthia Jurs (10:44.93)
I missed you. cut out on me there for a few minutes. were saying about Southern Baptist Christian Texas. That's where I'm
Reese Brown (10:50.559)
Okay, so sorry about that. But yes, yes, but right, but just being able to marry Buddhism into this tradition was a very accessible way for me to first start exploring these things. But also a really beautiful entry point to be able to see, you know, the overlaps between
prayer and meditation and the Christian idea of we are all children of God and he is within all of us is very similar to some of these Buddhist ideals. I tend to be a little bit partial to the Buddhist languaging of Buddha nature is within all of us being ungendered and more universal. But I really appreciate your nod to this marriage with other
Cynthia Jurs (11:39.81)
Mm-mm. Yeah.
Reese Brown (11:49.485)
traditions, because that is a very special part of Buddhism. In acknowledging the Buddha nature within all of us and this internal work that is always accessible, internal to us, how do you see that internal work matching up with this connection to the broader world around us? Because, of course, there's a huge connection there.
Cynthia Jurs (11:51.574)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reese Brown (12:16.929)
And I do think that a lot of people find accessibility to this internal work when we are in nature and when we are connected to the earth. What do you think that connective thread is?
Cynthia Jurs (12:28.182)
Hmm. Well, I really have come to have my own experience and believe very deeply that we're not separate from the earth. We're not separate from the web of life. We're part of it. And so everything that that happens and grows and lives on the body of Mother Earth is alive. And we're we're part of that living
So there is no separation and it's important that we understand that and experience it because we have our own power to affect that web of life very directly in how we live our lives and realize that what goes out from our hearts is affecting everything.
Reese Brown (13:01.987)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (13:28.062)
And so accessing that happens in different ways. Meditation is a great way to access it, but so is going out and putting your back against a tree or your toes in the ocean or listening to the sound of the birds and just stopping for a minute to kind of disengage from the incessant activity and busyness and.
Reese Brown (13:28.067)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (13:55.522)
messaging from the dominant culture that tells us what we're supposed to do and how to be that disconnects us from our own true nature, you know? And our own true nature is going to express itself differently for everyone. And that's a beautiful thing. The diversity of life on Earth is such a magnificent display, you know? And so I don't know, I'm kind of riffing on whatever it was you asked. Was there
Reese Brown (14:04.959)
Mm.
Reese Brown (14:10.335)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Reese Brown (14:24.513)
No, I love it.
Cynthia Jurs (14:25.48)
or to where you wanted to go with it.
Reese Brown (14:27.203)
No, that was a perfect riffing. I certainly, questions are just there to hear your thoughts, not for perfect answers by any means. But absolutely, I think I hear this interconnectedness. And I'm glad that you brought up the kind of incessant hustle and bustle of particularly Western culture, but in the United States as well.
To get extremely practical with it, what are some of your recommendations and or personal practices to an addition to meditation and getting out into nature that you integrate to get in touch with this true nature in the multiplicitous sense of the word?
Cynthia Jurs (15:23.496)
Yeah. Well, I, you know, one of the most immediate ways is to remember to breathe with awareness. So we, you know, we're constantly breathing, right? But we're not necessarily breathing with awareness. But the moment we turn our attention to our own breath.
Reese Brown (15:35.789)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (15:48.236)
just going through life, you know, walking from one room to the next or washing the dishes or, you know, whatever it happens to be to come back to the breath is a way to first of all, like connect the body and the mind through the breath. It's a way of conspiring with Mother Earth, literally, because this
Reese Brown (16:06.605)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (16:15.67)
You you start to realize, my goodness, this is the life force of the planet flowing through me, keeping me alive and contributing to the life force of all beings and the trees and everything else, right? So, and then beyond that, when we can stop the busy mind for a few minutes even,
Reese Brown (16:20.417)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (16:44.482)
And this doesn't even have to take the term meditation. But if we can return to the breath and just have like a little time out, you know, to just do nothing else or think about nothing else other than just the breathing in and the breathing out. Right there, everything settles down. And we come back to our true self in that moment when we allow ourselves.
Reese Brown (16:48.739)
short.
Reese Brown (17:05.88)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (17:13.334)
to not be obsessing about the things that we're usually preoccupied with. And just like time out, I'm just gonna come back to my breath.
Reese Brown (17:19.235)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (17:26.154)
And then it's like this renewal. And if you can extend that a little bit, suddenly things start to get a little bit more clear. It's like you know, that is just a waste of time. That over there is what's really calling. And you just kind of keep coming back. So that's a big practice for me throughout the day.
Reese Brown (17:28.589)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (17:35.992)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (17:55.282)
just remembering. So, you know, I love to go to sacred places in the world, places that carry an energy of maybe in this conversation you could say awakening, places that are sacred for whatever that means to you, you know, maybe it's a cathedral, maybe it's a rock circle, you know, in some
Reese Brown (17:57.228)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (18:24.962)
sacred circle in the Celtic world. Maybe it's a Buddhist site or something. Maybe it's a place where people make offerings. Remember, in Native America, people go and they make offerings and they make a connection to the ancestors, to the land, to the great...
Reese Brown (18:40.099)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (18:54.806)
great spirit, or, you know, are kind of catalyzed in some of these places to remember God or, you know, there's so many forms, so many forms, we lose track of that, you know, so it's important to kind of pilgrimage to some of those places and everywhere.
Reese Brown (19:04.355)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (19:11.797)
Right, right.
Reese Brown (19:16.792)
Mm.
Cynthia Jurs (19:24.202)
we live in the world, we can find them. We don't have to get on an airplane necessarily to find them.
Reese Brown (19:27.277)
Yes.
Reese Brown (19:30.947)
And I do think a lot of the time why we feel this call to get on an airplane or a boat or something to go find these places is in the ritual of travel making that experience feel more sanctified and sacred. But a big question for me is how to create these places for myself in a very accessible way to still tap into that.
Cynthia Jurs (19:54.998)
Yeah
Reese Brown (19:57.313)
So I suppose my question for you is what do you think it is about these spaces that makes them sacred in the way that allows this remembrance when people tap into that space and is there a way to create that space for ourselves?
Cynthia Jurs (20:12.734)
Absolutely, thank you. you know, like if you can create a little altar, you know, like a little place in your home where you place the things that inspire you, you know, maybe it's a photograph or a picture of a place that you've been to, or maybe a teacher that you love, or your ancestors who inspire you to.
Reese Brown (20:22.563)
you
Cynthia Jurs (20:42.024)
or a statue or a candle and some incense, flowers, beautiful flowers, those kind of things. then you pick up, chances are you pick up something everywhere you go, whether it's a shell on the sand or a flower in the garden. And then you bring it back to that little altar in your home and then you take your seat, you make a comfortable spot for yourself to.
Reese Brown (21:03.011)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (21:11.594)
return to on a regular basis. And that is a way of connecting to that part of ourselves, which in those sacred places, one of the things that you can just bet has been happening over centuries is the lighting of the candles, the singing of the sacred songs, the drumming of the invitation to the ancestors to come, you know, and it's in the rocks.
Reese Brown (21:31.095)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (21:41.556)
It's in the land, you can feel it when you walk in. Or the temples or whatever we're talking about, you know. So reclaiming that, you know, just knowing that the reason that these places feel so strong is because of what's been done there over centuries, you know. And so when we do that and repeatedly in our own homes with a certain place like
Reese Brown (21:45.015)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (22:01.955)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (22:11.062)
I'm looking straight ahead, I have my altar there and it speaks to me, you know, and people come into the room and they go, yeah, wow, okay, you know? So that's another way of supporting ourselves to go back to, you know, taking another breath and stopping for a minute and just acknowledging that sacred place within us.
Reese Brown (22:14.157)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (22:23.821)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (22:36.535)
Hmm, that's beautiful. And I do think there is something to these physical places holding the energy of tradition and ritual and repetition that, I mean, we have all experienced the feeling of going into a beautiful church, right? And it's, whether it's of our tradition or not, and you walk in and it's like, there's powerful energy there. Absolutely.
With that, one word that you've been using that I think is a really beautiful word choice and ties us in a little bit to where I always like to start talking about books, which is the title, because I think titles are very important and the words we choose are very important. You've been using the word invitation and this invitation that we have to do this work. And in the title, the very first word is summoned, summoned by the earth, which
feels related to invitation to me in some ways, but where an invitation is a opening, being summoned is a calling, almost more obligatory in certain ways. Why the word summoned and what did being summoned feel like for you?
Cynthia Jurs (23:41.111)
Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (23:54.922)
Wow. Wonderful observation, Reese. yeah, you know, I think we're all, you know, if we get quiet enough, we can all experience that little quiet voice within that's going you here, you there, you know, and we ignore it because we think
we need to be doing something else or we're supposed to be like this, you know? And that little voice is like the most important voice to listen to. It's actually not so little once you start listening. So in my case,
Reese Brown (24:38.071)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Cynthia Jurs (24:48.586)
You know, I'm kind of stumbling along. I mean, I was always searching and everything, but I was was stumbling along in my life, wondering what to do with myself as so many of us are for such a long time. And we're lucky if we, you know, find it. But when I when I landed that question for the Olamin in the cave, I realized that was my life's guiding question. And I I had already, as I said, I had already been exposed to
Reese Brown (25:00.354)
Yes.
Reese Brown (25:12.214)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (25:18.156)
Buddhism. so in let's just back up for a minute, because in the story of the Buddha's life, when he was sitting, you know, he was searching and searching and practicing and doing all of this learning so many things. And then all of a sudden, it was just like, I got to sit down. And he stopped and he was practically starving to death because he'd been such a renunciate. But anyway, he
He started to recover and there was a young girl who helped him by feeding him and kind of making him comfortable. And he sat under the tree, this tree where he stopped, and then his process of awakening began. And in the process of that awakening, what did he do but touch the earth?
to witness this process going on inside of himself because it was so much bigger than him. And he needed some sort of a witness and maybe even some sort of stabilization in that incredible process of, you know, releasing himself into something so much larger. Awakening, you know, and so he touched the earth.
Reese Brown (26:40.203)
Mmm.
Cynthia Jurs (26:45.534)
and summoned the earth to witness what was happening to him. In my book, I actually retell that story as if the Buddha were a woman, because I, and I never expected to do that, but I realized that as a woman, I had been hungering for, you know, a way to identify with the Buddha that didn't involve having to change my own identity from
one gender to another, you know? And so I rewrote it as if the Buddha were a woman, not to say the Buddha should be a woman, but because I, you know, I totally respect and bow and honor the Buddha. But as a woman, it's helpful to have feminine forms that we can identify with. So anyway, that aside, I realized as I was going around the world with the practice I received from the Olam in the cave,
Reese Brown (27:15.437)
Great. Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (27:42.208)
which is a practice of working with what are called earth treasure vases, which are little clay pots filled with offerings intended to bring healing to a place where they're planted in the ground. And, you know, the rational mind kind of goes, what'd you say? You know, really? That helps? You know, like, okay. I decided I had to try everything, you know, and that was what was coming to me. And it's just been amazing to see
the kinds of things that have arisen in the places that I've gone to. But in the course of carrying that out, I had to learn to listen to the earth because the need for healing and protection is so overwhelming. You know, it's like where in the world do we go? Well, we have to go everywhere. We have to kind of try everything. And so I began to really listen to the earth as my
Reese Brown (28:14.211)
Hmm...
Cynthia Jurs (28:40.436)
as my guide, as my teacher, as my informant, you know, on where the path was going to go next. And so I realized when I took one of the treasure vases to Australia, I was out back in the, in the bush. It was this amazing moment. And I realized that I had been summoned by the earth to do this.
Reese Brown (28:44.577)
Mmm.
Cynthia Jurs (29:09.738)
in these times. so I'm always inviting people, inviting, not necessarily summoning, but there is a sense of like the times that we're living in are summoning us. Wake up now, you know, but the invitation is really to touch the earth in our lives and to listen to what this incredible teacher
Reese Brown (29:09.965)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (29:24.428)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (29:37.836)
who embodies just everything that is alive in the world is trying to tell us. so, summoned, being summoned, summoning, responding to the summons, not just turning away and going, well, that's for somebody else. Because we're all being invited to come into this relationship. That's my feeling is that.
Reese Brown (29:55.587)
Mhm.
Reese Brown (30:02.263)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (30:07.23)
in these times, there's kind of no escape. We're all in it together.
Reese Brown (30:10.721)
Right. Absolutely. Well, and I think what you said earlier, too, about all of us having this true nature, call it Buddha nature, true nature within us, it is difficult to imagine that we would not be in something like this together. And that I think one of the unifying forces of any religious system, spiritual system, philosophy system is that we are all connected.
in some way and to turn away from that feels deeply antithetical to the human experience to me. So I do think that that's really beautiful in that way that we can also in the way all of us are invited to do this work, the difference in feeling summoned to certain things and certain dimensions of that work I think is really beautiful the way
slightly different approaches can contribute to the broader
conversation around exactly what you're talking about. Talk to me more about these earth treasure vases. It is something you discuss a bit in the book, but I am just so fascinated by this beautiful ritual. And it was something I had not come across until reading your book. And I really, really loved the...
I've used this word a lot, but the ritual behind it, that is something about religious systems that I think really speaks to me is the repetition and pattern. And that being a piece of this ritual, I think is really beautiful. I would love if we just could talk a little bit about that.
Cynthia Jurs (31:58.142)
Of course. Yeah, it's an old tradition that comes from the Tibetan Buddhist culture or spiritual tradition. And it originated in the eighth century when the historical figure called Padmasambhava brought Buddhism to Tibet from India. And in the course of his life, he was quite a prophet, really.
And he foresaw that there would be times of degradation on the planet in times to come. And so he brought forward a practice that could be useful in times ahead. And so the practice of the Earth treasure vases was discovered or rediscovered in the kind of like when the industrial revolution started to come into the world and, you know, things
began to go down this path that has created such imbalance in the world. And so the practice involves these little clay pots that are, in our case, the clay was mixed with all kinds of sacred substances by the lamas who made them for us in Nepal and then blessed.
And traditionally the monks in the monasteries and stuff would fill them with specific offerings really dedicated to restoring balance and enhancing the environment and, you know, bringing prosperity and those kinds of things. But in our case, because they had to travel all around the world, they gave them to us empty, but they blessed them and filled them with all kinds of these potent medicines into the clay.
And then they gave them to us to then fill with offerings that are meaningful to ourselves and to the cultures and places where they were to go. And so that has been the practice is taking them around the world to all kinds of places where healing and protection is called for. And of course, that's everywhere. And that takes many different forms from, you know, war zones to ecosystems to
Cynthia Jurs (34:16.396)
pandemics to inner cities and mountain tops and rivers and everything in between. So we have been working with them now for 30 years. I have, and there's now a global community called the Gaia Mandala Global Healing Community that is, I like to say, stewarding these little clay vessels, holy vessels around
Reese Brown (34:28.8)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (34:44.288)
the world to places where this is called for. And we always make relations with the elders of the lands, traditional indigenous peoples and ask for their blessing and participation because we don't want to assume that this is something that, you know, we have some answer or, you know, this is good. mean, it is good, but, you know, you have to be sensitive to not imposing anything on anyone.
Reese Brown (34:50.337)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (35:03.97)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (35:08.323)
Sure.
Cynthia Jurs (35:13.824)
So that's become a big part of the practice. you know, over the years we've identified some of the deepest core wounds, you know, in the world that are contributing to the imbalances that we're experiencing today. And so the little vessels, when you take them into ritual ceremony, it involves inviting people into, I'm using that word a lot myself today, into a meditation.
which we do actually every full moon online. We do a virtual meditation on Zoom that anybody can join. It's free of charge. But we do that in the places that we go as well in person and then send the little clay pot around the circle to invite people to put their own prayers or offerings into it. And the little vessels really serve as
kind of like ambassadors, you know, to open us to a chance to give what we love, to offer something we care about, you know, to the lands that we want to see protected and brought healing to. So it's a way of making that connection. And then you're just amazed at what starts to happen, you know, because people that connect with
Reese Brown (36:33.731)
Hmm
Reese Brown (36:40.449)
Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (36:42.166)
their own motivation to be of benefit. And that gets poured into these little clay pots and then they're planted like a seed in the ground, you know, and then we water them with our intentions and with our, our, our continued vows really, you know, to engage and, then, you know, you realize at a certain point, well, actually I'm a holy vessel.
Reese Brown (36:51.319)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (37:02.273)
Right.
Cynthia Jurs (37:09.502)
It's not just a little clay pot that I'm taking out there. It's like, have something to give to offer. Yeah. So that's.
Reese Brown (37:16.055)
Yes. Wow. It is just so beautiful. And I do love this relationship between the human body as a vessel and the earth treasure bases as vessels and the idea of kind of nurturing both of these things and the same way that we create a vow to these promises and that we're planting into the physical earth.
What vows do we make with ourselves knowingly or unknowingly that we are watering with the, this energy, and being very intentional with how we do that for ourselves too. one thing that you, something you mentioned really brought up for me, which is a question that I've actually been struggling with for a while now personally.
is this idea of imposing, right? And entering into these communities and very wisely you shared, we do not want to impose, we want to do this with the blessing and in communion with the people of these places of the physical space, but also the tradition. And in the process of awakening and becoming more knowledgeable about these things,
I similarly have this feeling of not wanting to impose on anyone's traditions, but I do think that sometimes inevitably there tends to be a...
hierarchy that can be created in, well, I am awakened and I am further along in this practice than someone else may be. And I don't really agree with the idea that one can be necessarily more awakened than the other. However, that is very much kind of I remember what it felt like before having been introduced to some of these concepts and now
Reese Brown (39:24.189)
starting to try and integrate them into my life. So I would love to hear your thoughts on this kind of balance between the growth that we experience personally without it bringing a sense of superiority.
Cynthia Jurs (39:40.83)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's so good you brought that up. I'm so with you on that because I feel like one of the, I mentioned earlier, one of the idea of core wounds. think the hierarchical power over superiority dynamic that is operating in the world so across so many platforms, right?
Reese Brown (40:10.294)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (40:10.882)
whether it's political or spiritual or educational or whatever, familial. That dynamic is like a death threat really to our creative blossoming as individuals. And so it's also killing the planet because we're operating inside of this power over op-
Reese Brown (40:17.419)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Reese Brown (40:33.943)
Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (40:40.258)
dynamic that is, you know, just taking advantage of the living life force of Mother Earth. so, and that is within us as well. you know, when we impose something on anybody, we are taking power over them.
Reese Brown (41:05.206)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (41:07.102)
And so, yes, we might have an incredible experience of some, you know, beautiful thing that we want to share that is really making a difference in our lives, you know. And that's a wonderful thing. And we, you know, want to do that in a way that is allowing others to come to that for themselves in their own way. How you come to it is going to be different than how I come to it, you know.
Reese Brown (41:32.247)
Mm.
Cynthia Jurs (41:36.692)
And so a practice and a tradition and a way of being that is feeding that spirit in the world without imposing it on others or thinking this is the right way and what this is is the wrong way and I have the answers and you don't. It's so damaging, you know.
just so damaging to the incredible diversity of life on Earth, you know? So there's all these facets. You know, it's like the planet is just this jewel in space, and each one of us is a little facet of that jewel. And together, have incredible, you we just embody such beauty. And I celebrate that. So...
Reese Brown (42:12.535)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (42:33.228)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (42:36.532)
You know, I think it's important for us to come back to our true self over and over again. You know, that's another little ritual we can do is just, you know, take another breath, come back. What is my truth? You know, not the truth that I'm told I should be like that, you know, but it takes courage. mean, and that's where community comes in is like.
Reese Brown (42:50.252)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (42:57.805)
Yes.
Cynthia Jurs (43:03.042)
when I was talking about the little earth treasure vase going around the circle, you know, and we witness each other offering our deep prayers and, you know, making those kinds of vows and commitments. You know, it's so powerful to be witnessed by someone else other than our own self, you know, it's like you get so isolated. It's another dynamic that's happening in the world today that's you know, debilitating, you know.
Reese Brown (43:05.943)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (43:31.459)
No, I absolutely and I do think that truly witnessing someone and sharing space in that individual's truth is such a beautiful gift. And I can recall very specific moments where I have felt that in communion with another person. And while there is of course this certain
Cynthia Jurs (43:32.34)
Anyway, yeah.
Reese Brown (43:58.327)
fundamental nature of the human being that is to exist within our own brains, our own minds, our own perspective, to attempt to break that down and to be in that space with someone else is such a beautiful gift and
Cynthia Jurs (44:13.533)
We live for that, right?
Reese Brown (44:15.265)
Yeah, I mean, that is part of why I love this, right? Is that it feels like we're trying to go to that place. Absolutely. When you feel that connection with another human being, well, perhaps I'm about to answer my own question, because I was going to say, how do you then tie that back into this sacred activism work? But I think it goes back to what you said at the very beginning of the podcast. Correct me if I'm wrong or if you have
more thoughts about this, please. But that that energy is within all of us. And so that in communing with nature, can we not achieve that same sense in communing with other?
Cynthia Jurs (44:57.804)
There you go. Yeah. We can awaken that with each other when we touch that place of honesty and truth and transparency, know, vulnerability. Those are qualities that get awakened when we stop just, you know, layering on all the shoulds in our lives and pavement and doing all of that. You know, we numb ourselves so much. But when we open
Reese Brown (45:03.178)
you
Reese Brown (45:18.403)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (45:22.708)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (45:25.594)
and support each other in opening. There it all is, you know. so that, I love the earth as a teacher because nature is such a teacher. And then it reflects back to us our own nature. And that's so often what we are overriding.
Boring and then we feel sick and we wonder well, why am I why am I hurting like this? Well, you weren't listening to your own nature that tell told you maybe I need to like take a nap right now or Go for a walk and move my body or you know those kinds of things so
Reese Brown (46:02.797)
Yes.
Reese Brown (46:12.775)
Absolutely. Well, and having some grace with yourself as we go about doing that and learning that too, which I think takes us into the subtitle of the book, which I do think is arguably the main thesis of the book, which is becoming a holy vessel for healing our world. And of course, ties into this work of the, say, earth treasure vases, wanted to make sure I got the wording right there. And
kind of mirroring that process for ourselves, but.
The way we treat ourselves is so often not the way we would treat sacred objects. Talk to me a bit about this becoming of a holy vessel within ourselves. And of course, you've written a whole book on this. So if anyone would like to dive any deeper into this, please check out the book. But what would be your entree into becoming a holy vessel?
Cynthia Jurs (47:14.754)
Well, I think you sort of were going there acknowledging how hard it is for us to stay connected to and treat ourselves as a holy object, know, a holy vessel, because of how deeply the dominant culture tells us we have to be different than that, or we're not holy, or we're not sacred.
Reese Brown (47:22.403)
Mm.
Reese Brown (47:30.499)
Mm-mm.
Reese Brown (47:41.155)
Thanks.
Cynthia Jurs (47:43.83)
You know, and we should ignore those things and we do and we go through our whole lives sometimes ignoring those parts of ourselves. And it's just tragedy, you know. And so to shift that way of living and being and slowly, slowly, you know, it usually doesn't happen overnight, but shifting that way of being into really regarding each one of us as
Reese Brown (47:51.468)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (48:12.776)
as sacred and holy, know, like with this Buddha nature or that we are worth everything. Your gift is contributing so much to the world, even if it's just a little, you know, a few people here and there or a few animals here and there or whatever it is, you know, that's good. And that's enough. And then
Reese Brown (48:16.609)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (48:41.728)
you start to kind of feel the wind at your back when you engage, right? And so then you realize, well, I got to take care of myself because this is really fun. This is really good. This is what I want to be doing with my life. And the more you take care, the more energy you have, the more you can realize your dreams.
Reese Brown (48:45.791)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (49:11.499)
Hmm, absolutely.
Cynthia Jurs (49:12.488)
And then you give it and you see what happens when you give that. When you're just giving the old story, it doesn't go very far. Because it's just reproducing the same old patterns of habits that have been so destructive. But if you start to feed this other spirit in yourself,
Reese Brown (49:27.309)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (49:34.627)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (49:41.494)
the holy vessel part, then it starts to kind of take on a life of its own and things become a lot less difficult. Don't you find?
Reese Brown (49:51.071)
Yes, I do. I absolutely do. One thing that I have really been, it's been kind of a mantra for me recently. And anytime I have a mantra for myself, I find myself called to share it because of course, it's always front of mind. But it has been I am worth my dreams and passions. And as you said, we are worth everything. I just gave me goosebumps. But also, the world is worth me.
Cynthia Jurs (50:18.337)
Yes.
Reese Brown (50:20.407)
following those dreams and passions as well in that I do believe that that is the greatest gift we can offer is when we lean into that, into that summoning, into that call, you feel the wind at your back, but also the impact you create feels so aligned. And I think that it allows the courage is but embracing fear.
feeling the fear and doing it anyways. I think reminding myself that the world is worth me overcoming that fear makes it not easier, but much more worthwhile to lean in.
Cynthia Jurs (51:04.608)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That little edge where the fear is, is often a sign that that's where I need to go. Like, uh-oh, you know, what's that gonna be? But then, you know, if you like adventure, it really helps because, you know, you don't know what's around the corner. And that can be a wonderful surprise. But also, you know, I feel like the world and the earth
Reese Brown (51:12.064)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yes.
Reese Brown (51:19.746)
Yes.
Reese Brown (51:26.637)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (51:35.102)
as I've said over and over now, is it kind of a turning point, you know? It's like, do we value life on earth? Excuse me. If we do, then we're gonna do what you just said. Because otherwise, we could be in for really a lot of loss of life, you know? It's kind of down to the wire. And...
Reese Brown (51:40.385)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (51:50.189)
Yeah. Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (52:04.246)
but each of us has a role to play and that's so exciting.
Reese Brown (52:08.031)
Yes, I completely agree. And it's so energizing in that in both dimensions of the we are down to the wire, we must, but also exciting in that we can. It is this twofold.
kind of indictment, I suppose. And one thing that you just said with the fear is that that is oftentimes where you should go. It may be, I want to say it's actually Ram Dass, but it may actually be Thich Nhat Hanh or maybe Alan Watts, one of these great thought leaders has a quote that is where your fear is, there your path is. And I just think that is such a fabulous reminder.
Cynthia Jurs (52:49.366)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (52:55.411)
as we are seeing these things that I think evoke a lot of fear and that can oftentimes make us want to crawl back into our shell and find.
comfort and ease in that way, but that is but a bandaid of ease, not true comfort, right? What would you say in terms of really wanting to encourage people to become a holy vessel themselves, start taking steps towards all of the things that we've talked about? What is
Cynthia Jurs (53:13.332)
Yes, yes.
Reese Brown (53:37.917)
addition to reading the book, course, your kind of advice, I suppose, and very practical next steps.
Cynthia Jurs (53:51.344)
Well, you can also listen to the book, not just read it if you're a listener. So I've enjoyed reading the book for the audiobook version. So that's a way we can connect. But apart from that, yes. You know, I think one of the really important things is finding community and finding finding others who can support us in making these kinds of changes, because
Reese Brown (54:01.868)
Mmm.
Cynthia Jurs (54:18.274)
It's difficult, you know, to change and transform our lives. so finding that path for yourself, it takes some looking, it takes some adventuring. It might mean being, you know, courageous enough to stop doing whatever is, you know, think you think is what you're supposed to do, but is actually keeping you from really realizing your true calling.
Reese Brown (54:48.418)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (54:48.574)
So, you know, that process is a little tricky because it's scary, you know, and it means sometimes letting go of what is no longer serving and trusting that there is something so much larger than ourselves operating that is guiding us, you know. So starting with stopping, taking a breath, coming back to that true self, that true nature, going out to the ocean side or the mountaintop and just, you know, like,
Reese Brown (54:53.655)
Yes.
Reese Brown (55:06.785)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (55:18.09)
inviting a relationship with the earth, with the guiding forces of our lives that we can't figure out from here. Okay? So that's the downfall, you know, is when I think I have to figure it out for myself. So the connection with the community, whatever it is, and, you know, we offer a lot of various practices in the Gaya Mandala.
Reese Brown (55:26.083)
Mm.
Right.
Reese Brown (55:34.786)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (55:47.458)
community. But and I mentioned the full moon and all of that and the beautiful way to connect with others. you know, being being brave, standing up going, you know what? It's time for me to have the courage to really walk my talk and face into or lean into, as you said, the
Reese Brown (55:53.783)
Yes.
Reese Brown (56:06.115)
Hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (56:16.512)
the true calling I feel in that deepest heart. So whatever we can do to, you know, feel that connection and then stand for it, know, stand for life, stand for the goodness of our caring and our compassion, you know, our love, it's really all comes down to love.
Reese Brown (56:38.819)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (56:45.176)
Yeah.
Cynthia Jurs (56:45.954)
What do you love? What do you care about? That's where you need to put your energy. That's where you need to find the time to drop into that place and then allow slowly, slowly for that love to guide you. Not the anger and the hatred and the fear. We're building a new
Reese Brown (56:52.216)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (56:59.843)
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Jurs (57:15.496)
a new operating system here.
Reese Brown (57:19.777)
Yes, both on that personal, interpersonal level, also broader economically, socially, governmentally, globally, right? Like these are all new systems.
Cynthia Jurs (57:33.13)
Yeah, it's an exciting time and it's a challenging time, but what else is there? That's what life is for.
Reese Brown (57:37.261)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (57:41.879)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I do want to be mindful of our time, so I'll take us into my final few questions. One, in light of our conversation, which has just been so enlightening for me personally, and I'm sure it will be for our listeners as well, is there anything that we have not gotten to that you would like to touch on? Anything that we did talk about that you want to
return to, emphasize, clarify, anything else at all that you feel called to share.
Cynthia Jurs (58:17.339)
Thank you. I feel like this has been a wonderful conversation for me too and I really appreciate how you have kind of directed us sort of in through the back door, so to speak. And I love that. yeah, no, I feel like we've covered a lot of ground and gone very deeply and I really appreciate it very much. So I guess the only thing I would say is if anyone wants to.
Continue this conversation, you know or go more deeply to please come find me on on Gaia Mandela net and there's lots of Other things that you'll find when you once you go there, but I hope we'll stay connected to race. It's been really Yeah
Reese Brown (59:02.531)
Absolutely. Absolutely. For me as well. that link as well as all of the others mentioned will be in the show notes for listeners and watchers to access you and your beautiful work. Final question, just to put a little bow on our conversation. What is one word to describe how you're feeling right now?
Cynthia Jurs (59:25.507)
Just so moved. I'm so touched. Moved. You know, I can feel the emotion of that love and that caring rising up, you know, in my heart. so it's a sign. It's a sign that we've touched something really real. And I appreciate it very much. I appreciate you. Yeah.
Reese Brown (59:28.163)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (59:49.183)
I appreciate. Yes, yes, same. Thank you very much, Cynthia.