The Spirituality and Creation of Tarot with Artist and Professional Tarot Reader Beth Frampton
Reese Brown (00:00.014)
Beth, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with me today. I am so excited to get to sit down and chat with you a little bit more.
Beth (00:41.308)
I'm super stoked to be here. I haven't done anything like this before, so it's a very exciting opportunity for me.
Reese Brown (00:48.458)
I'm so excited. Okay, so the first question that I always ask all of my guests just to kind of get us warmed up, what is one thing you're grateful for right now?
Beth (00:58.628)
Ooh, oh there's so many things. Um, I was actually just like driving earlier today and I was like, I'm so grateful for like just the life I'm living in general, because things are going like pretty well for me. Like, I have my deck and my Kickstarter reached like over 150% funded, I think. And so I'm grateful for that. Family, of course.
Reese Brown (01:14.355)
Oh, no.
Reese Brown (01:21.122)
That's amazing.
Beth (01:27.444)
Yeah, there's a lot.
Reese Brown (01:29.118)
I love that. That is so exciting. Congratulations on your Kickstarter. That is amazing. We'll dive a little bit more into that in a minute. But the next question I always ask to just really break our conversation open is what is your story? I know that is like a deep big question. So whatever you feel called to share in this moment, what is your story?
Beth (01:33.804)
Thank you.
Beth (01:53.944)
Okay, um, oh boy. It kind of feels like everything started, or like, I kind of branched off and started really exploring me when I first got to college, and that was really rocky and very, very rough. Um, as like most first year college experiences are, I think, yeah.
Reese Brown (02:07.278)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (02:11.182)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (02:17.878)
Yeah, yes.
Beth (02:21.032)
I was living in the dorms and I'm not... I'm a very solitary person. I've been living alone for the past three, coming on four years, I think, and living in the dorms with a complete stranger did not give me any time to decompress. And so I went shingles that year on top of... No! I'm stressed.
Reese Brown (02:33.422)
Wow.
Reese Brown (02:42.987)
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
When people say that the body and the spirit are not connected, I'm like, have you never made yourself sick with stress before? It's a real thing.
Beth (02:54.648)
Yeah. No, literally. It is. One of my friends always gets like sick at the beginning of the semester due to stress. So yeah. But I don't know. First year was rough. Super depresso first year. And then, yeah. And then...
Reese Brown (03:16.502)
Yeah, first year is hard.
Beth (03:22.808)
Once I started living alone, things got infinitely better, and that's kind of when I started to, I was always like super into tarot since maybe my freshman year of high school, but living alone really connected me deeper to it and to my spirituality in general. And so that's kind of when I explored, I think like the deeper meanings and like the way I can use tarot as a tool instead of just like a fun little like.
Reese Brown (03:38.541)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (03:50.775)
Yeah.
Beth (03:52.372)
Oh my gosh guys, do you have like a tail reading at like a party or something?
Reese Brown (03:54.494)
Yeah, which I will say it's a super fun party trick anytime Yeah, someone's like, oh my gosh, you're Yotaro. I'm like, yeah, you want me to pull a card for you and people are like, ooh Yeah
Beth (04:09.246)
And then, oh gosh, and then I started working at this spiritual shop here in Lubbock called Temple We Botanicals. And that kind of like, and then I started my TikTok around that same time. And then things kind of just took off from there.
and have been steadily progressing upward and it's been really, really awesome. Tyra is kind of like the core of everything for me. So it was kind of an yeah.
Reese Brown (04:38.206)
I love that. So obviously, Tarot, so I'm a bit familiar with Tarot. I do read Tarot, but I would not put myself on the same level as you in any sense. But I do like how you said that it's a tool, right? And I think a lot of people look at it. And one, both of us live in Texas, we're in the Bible Belt, and there is a lot of...
Beth (05:00.64)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (05:06.126)
conversation around the occult and occultism and metaphysical practices that they're negative or even evil, which of course, or demonic. Yeah. And I'm like, I personally don't believe that. Of course you personally don't believe that. Or if you believe that they are connected to some sort of underworld thing, it's not like in a negative way. Right. Exactly. So
Beth (05:15.168)
like demonic. Yeah.
Beth (05:28.66)
Negative five. Oh yeah.
Reese Brown (05:33.954)
Have you ever had to talk with someone about that and what has that experience been like? What would you say to someone who was like, well, tarot is of the devil or tarot is evil or demonic. How do you counter that?
Beth (05:50.068)
never really encountered somebody who said that and I don't know if that's just because I don't get out or if it's just because I'm really lucky. I think like the only time I have encountered anything like that was on like a live I was doing on TikTok and there was just like somebody commenting about like Jesus and how Jesus will save me and I was like well thanks that's cool, dope. However...
Reese Brown (05:56.674)
Yeah, yeah.
Reese Brown (06:08.772)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (06:17.601)
Yeah.
Beth (06:21.868)
I'm fine.
Reese Brown (06:22.986)
Yeah, I can love Jesus and these cards actually. Yeah, which, yeah. But I think that's a great response. That's like, thank you. Like obviously, I think it always comes from a place of love and care, but it's like, yeah, but I'm still making these choices for me. I love that. So you said you first started getting into tarot in freshman year. What first sparked that interest for you?
Beth (06:26.188)
Yeah, I know.
Beth (06:51.884)
I think my mom got me my first tarot deck, and I think it was the Rider Waite tarot, the standard girly. Um, we do love her! She's such a solid. Um...
Reese Brown (06:59.21)
Yeah, we love her. We love the Rider Waite.
Beth (07:06.68)
Yeah, I think she just bought me my first hair deck because I've always been interested in spirituality and kind of the occult and just things on the fringe. And I grew up watching a ton of ghost shows and stuff with my mom. And so I think just being able to have a tool to connect with something higher than myself was really, really cool.
Reese Brown (07:15.522)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (07:34.452)
And it also helped me really build my intuition and start trusting myself a lot more. And that really came into play when I got to college because it's kind of like, I felt like really up until my first year of college, I would say I was akin to being like asleep or like not fully in tune with myself, I guess.
Reese Brown (07:39.89)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (07:59.634)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Maybe just kind of going through the motions of life and not being fully there.
Beth (08:06.144)
Yeah, yeah, not really like, it felt like I wasn't like making decisions for myself when I was just doing things to like appease my family and like everyone around me. Big people pleaser vibes, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Reese Brown (08:21.43)
Yeah, absolutely. So when you say a tool to connect with your higher power, because I'm like so on the same page as you with that, where I'm like, for me, tarot, astrology, crystals, reading, journaling, like these meditation, they're all just different tools that we can use to connect with whatever higher power we believe in or the universe around us or whatever you want to call that.
Beth (08:34.972)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (08:46.06)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (08:49.223)
So how do you use tarot to connect? Do you, like, what is your, can I ask your belief system around that and what that looks like? I would love to know more.
Beth (08:59.072)
I am somebody who believes in spirit guides and that everybody has them, and they just help you through life, you know, and can guide you. And so I kind of, and of course, I kind of view it as a tier system. I also believe in archangels and stuff. I also believe that the power of belief can like...
Reese Brown (09:09.57)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (09:18.133)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (09:26.708)
I guess like manifest entities, like I do think that like the Christian God is real because there's so many people who believe in that energy that like it's going, that like it's going to create something, you know?
Reese Brown (09:39.858)
Right, if enough focus and energy is moving in one direction, it will manifest in some way. Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense.
Beth (09:43.328)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So the way I like to practice is I just kind of like to use my cards to talk to my guides. And I can kind of, I've kind of gotten to a point where I can communicate with them without using my cards. But I like to use the cards to like validate what I'm getting because sometimes I'm like, what if I'm crazy?
Reese Brown (10:03.534)
sure.
Reese Brown (10:11.926)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Beth (10:14.46)
um and then yeah also just like it's like my guides and then archangels and then like the universe as a whole it's kind of yeah for me personally it's different for everyone but that's how i like to how i like to rock it um
Reese Brown (10:23.022)
Hmm is the tear system
Reese Brown (10:29.39)
Sure.
Reese Brown (10:33.814)
Yeah, I love that. So how did you develop that tear system? So you said you grew up with watching ghost shows and talking with your mom about spirituality and all of these kind of fringe practices. Were you raised with a specific religion and then kind of developed your own take? Or was it just very open household and you got here?
Beth (10:43.789)
Yeah.
Beth (10:58.54)
really open. My dad was raised Pentecostal and so and I think my mom was raised like very like loosely Christian but they both decided that they didn't want to raise their kids with any form of religion because of the way it impacted them, namely like my dad. And so I was raised with like
Reese Brown (11:15.73)
Mmm.
Beth (11:28.696)
I wasn't told to believe anything, but I would just kind of like observe my mom and like go with her to fun, like psychic fairs and stuff and like see everything there and it kind of just like clicked with me. I think I like to research Christianity and like I love the like aesthetic of Catholicism, but it...
Reese Brown (11:43.821)
Yeah.
Beth (11:57.204)
It's just like a really cool, I don't know, I don't know.
Reese Brown (12:03.582)
maybe another like way to access the same energy but like you don't have to have that practice.
Beth (12:06.364)
kind of. It doesn't appeal to me. It's interesting, but it doesn't appeal to me in the same way that like, just spirituality does, you know? Yeah.
Reese Brown (12:18.862)
Gotcha. Yeah.
Why do you think that is? Do you think it's the strictness that tends to come within the communities or within leadership or a mix of both? Or is it like the foundational texts? Because to give you a little bit of background myself, I was raised Christian, but it was like loosely Christian. And now like no one in my family even identifies as Christian anymore, which is crazy.
Beth (12:43.116)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (12:50.65)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (12:52.394)
But I went to Christian private schools and I had a lot of struggle with like leadership telling me what my relationship with my higher power should look like the judgment of the community around me and like everything having to come from this one text that I was like, okay, it's a resource that's cool, but what about all of these other things? Right? So I don't want to project my experience onto you, but
Beth (13:14.52)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Beth (13:21.536)
Of course.
Reese Brown (13:22.398)
I would love to hear kind of more about why that doesn't appeal to you. What are your sticking points?
Beth (13:30.244)
I don't like to be put in a box, and so that's part of it. And if there's not a, like, if I'm told to do something or to believe something just because, and without a solid reasoning, or that's because that's what the Bible says, or that's.
Reese Brown (13:33.207)
Mmm.
Beth (13:53.664)
Like growing up, my parents would like tell me not to do something. I'm like, why? And they're like, because I said so. And I'm like, well, that's the worst reasoning ever. And so I kind of feel like that's part of it. But also, um, the people I've met and interacted with in spiritual practices versus like religious practices are much more like open minded and welcoming and less judgmental.
than individuals I've encountered in like Christian practices.
Reese Brown (14:29.61)
Yeah, sure. And not to say that is like a universal rule, of course, or that one can't be the other. But I totally like hear that experience. And I think oftentimes it's because of like just the circumstances that certain people are put in, right? Which is unfortunate to see. But yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Beth (14:35.152)
No. Yeah.
Beth (14:56.054)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (14:57.598)
Another thing that I wanted to ask you about, so obviously getting into Tarot, using it as a connection to your higher power, what inspired you to then start your TikTok channel? So for listeners who may have not stumbled upon your TikTok account yet, you do TikTok lives, where you do live readings, and you post daily videos, yes, of Tarot readings?
Beth (15:22.064)
Um, I would, but I've kind of fallen out of the habit to lose people, but normally.
Reese Brown (15:26.014)
Okay. Yes, cool. So what inspired you to start doing the online social media persona thing, but also using this spiritual side of it and bringing that to it?
Beth (15:43.776)
Like, growing up and I've always loved, like, YouTubers and I always wanted to, like, be, like, a YouTuber, but I never had anything to, like, talk about or do. And it always fascinated me, it always interested me, I thought it was so cool. And then I also have, like, a YouTube channel where I do post tarot readings, but I don't post nearly as often as I do on TikTok. But...
decided to do TikTok, one, because it's the easiest platform to grow on, and then two, because I don't know, it just kind of like felt called to do it and it was fun and it's fast and it's easy and it's also easy to connect with people on there. Yeah.
Reese Brown (16:18.539)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (16:37.162)
Yeah, honestly, I think there's so much about social media that obviously can be extremely negative. And there was a period of time where I like deleted all of my social media because I was like, this is horrible. But also it was during that phase where I was like, I'm going to be different. And like, so like, there was also that. But re downloading it and being very intentional with like, who am I following? What accounts am I following? What community online am I creating for myself?
It can be such a powerful force for good. Yeah.
Beth (17:06.401)
I think.
It really is. Being aware of the content you're absorbing is major.
Reese Brown (17:14.482)
Yes, yes, 100%. So two things about like your TikTok and YouTube content. One, talk to me a little bit about like distance sessions because I feel like there's a lot of misconception around like how energies can work remotely or like in a TikTok live, there could be thousands of people watching you and yet you're doing the same reading.
So what would you say to a skeptic that's like, well, there's no way that it's real because there's thousands of people watching this, but also what would you say to someone who's like, well, I'm not there with you?
Beth (17:53.236)
Yeah, I do like personal readings and I film them by, I just like set up my phone and I record them instead of doing like a one-on-one session because I get really nervous. And I feel like I'm not like, I don't know, if I'm nervous, then it's harder to like connect with the energy.
Reese Brown (18:04.202)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (18:13.726)
Yeah, 100%. It kind of blocks it a little bit. Yeah.
Beth (18:16.788)
little bit because I'm worried about like how am I like performing and that's not I don't want to be thinking about when I'm doing a reading um but I have like the person's name and I have their questions and so it's I'm just kind of able to like
Reese Brown (18:21.354)
Yeah. Right.
Beth (18:38.048)
of just like ask my guides and then their guides and the universe to like connect me with their energy at the beginning of the reading the session.
Beth (18:52.12)
And then it just kind of works. I don't really like... Oh. Yeah. And then I kind of get, I get feedback and it's really positive feedback. And I'll be doubting myself while I'm filming because I'm like, I feel like I'm just pulling this out of my ass. Um, but then this is not really like validates it, so.
Reese Brown (18:54.174)
Yeah. You just trust it.
Reese Brown (19:05.23)
sure.
Reese Brown (19:12.554)
Yeah, maybe a spirit guide is in your ass handing it to you, right? Like, who knows? I love it. So obviously, like you said, you get really good feedback. And I don't think that like creators grow for lack of reason, like, especially in this type of industry, like, of course there are people out there that perform tarot readings or astrology readings or other intuitive readings that are taking advantage of people like.
Beth (19:16.216)
Honestly, probably.
Beth (19:28.78)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (19:40.822)
They do exist, but I'm always like they exist in every industry. This one is no different, but there's also really awesome people who do this, like authentically and genuinely to try and form connection and help people. Um, so I think that's beautiful. Um, Oh my gosh, what was I going to say? Oh, so what is some of the, like, I'm sure in your feedback, you've heard like crazy, like synchronicities or something.
Beth (19:41.953)
Thank you.
Beth (19:45.484)
for real.
Reese Brown (20:07.598)
come up at some point. Share some of those, I would love to hear.
Beth (20:07.724)
No.
Beth (20:11.772)
Some of my favorite ones are I'll channel songs a lot because I listen to music super frequently, but sometimes there'll be songs that I haven't heard in like years and I completely forgot existed and the like lines would just pop in my head and it'll really fit like the reading that I'm doing. And so I'll get comments that like...
Reese Brown (20:18.252)
I love that.
Beth (20:35.348)
people were like just listening to that song earlier in the day or that song popped up like on the radio or something that day um and so that's probably my favorite thing just because i love a good i love a good like non-coincidental coincidence
Reese Brown (20:47.659)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (20:53.918)
Yes, yes. Well, I also love the connection to music. So tell me your thoughts on this, because I am a big believer in frequency, because I'm like, it goes down to like science, right? We are made up of atoms, which are just balls of energy, immaterial energy that are moving so quickly, that it gives our brains the illusion that we are solid. Right? So I'm like, everything has energy.
including us. So no wonder when we meet different people, you know, we either vibe with that vibration or we don't. And what is music if not different frequencies meeting our frequency? And when you do intuitive or energetic readings, like you said, it's like trying to tap into that frequency. So I think that is so cool that like music comes up for you because it's such a like energetic art form. Very similar to this.
Beth (21:27.777)
Yeah.
Beth (21:31.884)
Yeah.
Beth (21:40.533)
Yeah.
Beth (21:49.208)
it is yeah um i have like noticed that i don't know if it's just because i'm really susceptible to like energies now that i'm doing this and i've noticed like an increase in it in the past however many years since i started doing it um but like i can't really listen to like depressing music anymore because it will literally make me depressed literally
Reese Brown (22:02.734)
sure.
Reese Brown (22:14.045)
You can like feel it.
Beth (22:18.896)
And I've also noticed that with a few other creators that I am mutuals with, they kind of have a similar experience too. So I really think music has really awesome power, which also I, having playlists for different moods, and also there's this song called like...
Reese Brown (22:25.986)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (22:41.186)
That's my favorite thing.
Beth (22:42.804)
Yeah, there's a song like I think called Lucky Girl by Carlina that I found on like TikTok or something where she's literally like repeating like I'm a lucky girl, everything comes to me, flows to me, moves through me and I started listening to that. I don't think it was as- no it was before I started submitting my deck to different publishers.
And then I started to hear back from them and I was like, oh gosh, I'm so lucky. Yeah.
Reese Brown (23:13.706)
But it's true. And I think that goes back to kind of what you were talking about earlier, where if enough people are putting energy in one direction, it's like, again, to me, I'm such a big believer in that science and spirituality actually confirm each other, not the opposite. But I'm like, Newton said, like, energy cannot be created or destroyed. An object in motion will stay in motion and an object at rest will stay at rest. And so it's like, well, if all of this energy
Beth (23:29.52)
I think so too. Yeah.
Reese Brown (23:42.154)
is moving in one direction and it's going to keep moving and it can't be destroyed, it's got to create something, right? Otherwise, it'll just be going out there. And so, of course, like listening to these things that are going to like imbue you with those frequencies, it's like...
Beth (23:49.382)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (23:52.885)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (24:03.594)
If nothing else, it feels good. It makes me feel good and feel like I have control over it. Even if you don't necessarily believe in those specifics. But I'm like, I think, I do think that the science backs it up. And one of my favorite, favorite quotes that a friend of mine shared with me, it's from Arthur C. Clarke, I believe. It's one of his three principles of scientific inquiry. I might've totally just botched that, but.
Beth (24:15.838)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (24:33.286)
it's, um, any sufficient science will be indeterminable from magic. And I was just like, Whoa, because what is magic? If not things that like, we just don't understand yet. And it's like, we don't have to understand them for them to be powerful. Sorry. Now I'm going on a rant because I love this stuff.
Beth (24:48.662)
Yeah.
Beth (24:54.61)
Mm-hmm. No, it's really cool. Alchemy was kind of just a form of like chemistry before people started realizing like it's just science. Yeah.
Reese Brown (25:03.702)
Right, exactly. And I'm like, and I don't think that calling it science should take away like the beauty or magic of it either. It's like, it doesn't mean that it's not just as like synchronistic or connected to everything. So yes, sorry, I get so excited about this stuff, but that's lovely. To talk about your tarot deck a little bit more. So you are currently designing bone dead tarot.
Beth (25:12.223)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (25:31.702)
which is what your Kickstarter was for. Congratulations on getting funded. So exciting. We'll definitely link, of course, your TikTok YouTube, but also the deck where people can get it or support your Kickstarter down in our YouTube comments and the podcast notes if anyone is interested in checking that out. Definitely, definitely please go support Beth. What made you want to design your own deck? Let's just start there.
Beth (25:59.508)
It kind of just made sense because I'm currently going to school for art and I was originally a painting major, but I this past spring semester switched to jewelry design and metalsmithing because I'm just in love with that. It's so cool. It is so cool.
Reese Brown (26:15.266)
How cool is that?
Beth (26:19.54)
So just like being an artist and then being in love with tarot it kind of just made sense to put them together and to make something of my own and also I
Reese Brown (26:27.179)
Yeah.
Beth (26:32.536)
love like indie decks and I love seeing how artists individually like interpret each card if they have a different if they're like some artists like to do their own versions of like the right-of-weight deck but then other artists will design the card in a way that kind of like Either semi alters or expands on the meaning of the card and I
that because I can be pulled to a certain deck for a certain reading for someone and it will have been like necessary for me to use that deck because I'll get a certain message from like the artwork in that deck and so I just wanted to make my own deck and see like how I would interpret the cards and
Reese Brown (27:12.256)
Yes.
Beth (27:22.284)
how other people could use my cards to pull different meetings and expand on the meanings of the cards in their own way.
Reese Brown (27:30.498)
I think that is so beautiful. When you do read, because of course, any tarot reader channeler has different kind of practices when they do it, are you more of an intuitive reader where you take the card and you look at the picture a little bit, and then you know what it's supposed to mean? Are you pretty strict with the original meaning? How do you approach that in terms of interpreting the card, using the art?
wanting to use the original meaning, but also like, intuiting what's happening in the moment. Like, what's your kind of, what's the Beth Frampton mix?
Beth (28:10.632)
An extremely intuitive reader. I don't really use like structured spreads in my readings. Like some people really like the Celtic cross spread and like stick to her and each card will each like placement of each card will have a different meaning and then like you tie in the card meaning with like the placement meeting and then you get this like new grand thing.
Reese Brown (28:21.676)
Yeah.
Beth (28:40.566)
structured individual and so I like to- I'm like extremely familiar with all of the meanings of the cards but I also think that there's like a billion different ways to interpret each and every card because each card has like a light and dark aspect whether it's like the Sun card like it can still have some like not negative connotations but like
shadow aspects, I guess, depending on the reader.
Reese Brown (29:11.526)
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely I think that's true of like, inequality in a human being too, right? Like how you were saying like people pleasing thing, like that can be a really wonderful thing to be and like putting other people first and being selfless, but it can also be at the detriment to you, right? So I think of tarot cards in the same way where it's like the sun card, it's sunshiny, it's great. What is it covering up? Like what do we need to? Yeah, where's the moon? Like, yeah, however you want to talk about it.
Beth (29:34.849)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reese Brown (29:41.966)
I love that. So, kind of on that same note, how do you deal with reversals? For anyone that may not be familiar with tarot readings, one thing that can happen is when you're shuffling and you deal or draw a card and place it, it can either be face up or reversed and appear in the face down image. And some tarot readers don't really...
use reversals to interpret anything, and some tarot readers believe it's the exact opposite of the original card. Other tarot readers believe different things about reversals. So I would love to hear your take on it.
Beth (30:22.208)
like to shuffle my cards with them all facing upright. And so if I shuffle in the way where like, instead of pulling a card, I like for them to pop out while I'm shuffling. And so sometimes they like spin and turn themselves and I'll be like, she wants to be reversed.
Reese Brown (30:34.05)
Mm.
Reese Brown (30:43.224)
Yeah.
Beth (30:43.964)
so I will read with reversals and it'll kind of- it depends on the reading especially because I am a very intuitive reader. Sometimes it will have like the opposite meaning of the card or sometimes it will be like that card but in a very like suppressed energy um or it could be like the meaning of the card but
Reese Brown (31:03.457)
Mmm.
Beth (31:11.004)
interpreting it in a way that's like adjacent to the video.
Reese Brown (31:15.194)
mm-hmm Yeah, absolutely, I think that's so cool well in
Reese Brown (31:24.01)
I love that every aspect can be an intuitive portion, right? It's like you don't have to have an exact science with this. So that's so cool. So going back to your tarot deck, I kind of wanted to ask some of those questions just so I understood your approach a little bit more. So when you set out to design a tarot deck, what was your process like as an artist and as an intuitive reader, like wanting to make a deck?
I want these to be really beautiful and I'll sit down and, oh, I just banged my mic. And then I'll sit down and like channel how I feel about this card. Did you wanna keep it similar to writer weight? Like what was that process like? How much were you listening to your guides? And how much of it was like, I want them to be pretty and visual.
Beth (32:13.132)
me.
Beth (32:20.728)
Pretty and visual was also very important to me, like first and foremost, because I'm- It is, and it's beautiful. Yeah. I wanted it to be really colorful and also like bright and playful, just because I think it's like fun. I like things for it to be like fun and lighthearted, but still able to like have depth to it. And so-
Reese Brown (32:23.19)
Yeah. I mean, tarot is art at the end of the day. They're art. It is.
Reese Brown (32:35.982)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (32:46.102)
Yeah, lighthearted does not mean not meaningful.
Beth (32:49.716)
Yes, yes. And so I wanted that to kind of take importance in making the deck. I originally wanted to tackle the deck like going from all the way from like the Fool to the Ten of Wands like in order. But then I found that was kind of like hindering me and if I would just kind of like
Reese Brown (33:09.411)
Yeah.
Beth (33:13.908)
I guess like channel or like get like downloads, if you will, of like the cards. Like I would be just like doing something and then I'd get the image of like the five of cups or something in my head and I'll be like, cool, I have to draw that now.
Reese Brown (33:27.467)
Yeah.
Beth (33:31.74)
And it was like so fun and so cool to be able to like, it was all really intuitive. And I knew there were like a few things that I wanted to incorporate into some cards for like, of course, like to adhere to the actual meaning of the card, but also just to add my own like personal twist on it. Like I added a worm.
Reese Brown (33:52.692)
Right.
Beth (33:59.112)
in the like background of the hermit card because I call my sister Worm and she's a Virgo and the hermit is with Virgo.
Reese Brown (34:09.57)
Okay, as soon as you said you call your sister Worm, I knew you were going there. So for listeners, Emma Frampton, who was on season one of Making Meaning, is Beth's sister that, there you go, the Frampton sisters. And of course, they're both very spiritual individuals. I don't know if Emma's told you this, Emma and I have the same birthday. Isn't that crazy?
Beth (34:31.296)
You do? Yes! I think she did tell me. I think she did tell me that.
Reese Brown (34:35.69)
And so as soon as you said you call her worm, and I was like, oh my gosh, and it's hermit, and she's a Virgo, and I have always identified with like the hermit.
Reese Brown (34:46.85)
like figure. Um, and so that I, but I love that. That's so beautiful and special, but that you can have this like homage to Emma in there, but also that someone could draw this card and like read something completely different from like the worm that goes underground to live and breathe, but can come back out. But also that maybe they're doing a reading about their sister and they pull the hermit and like,
Beth (34:48.044)
Yeah.
Beth (35:09.964)
Thank you.
Reese Brown (35:15.222)
that's been imbued into the artwork of this. There's so many beautiful ways that could manifest. That is, I love that.
Beth (35:22.597)
Yeah, it's, I love tarot.
Reese Brown (35:28.27)
It's okay So same and going back to something you said at the beginning. It's a really great tool for connection, right? How have you found that it helps you connect to? Yourself, but also other people
Beth (35:31.569)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (35:43.929)
I will, doing readings for other people will connect me with them. And, um...
For connecting with myself, I, in the past like year or so, have been very like...
Beth (36:01.94)
Realizing that I can have, I can feel like multiple ways about something, it's not black and white. And so I've recently been using tarot to help me understand my own feelings better.
Reese Brown (36:10.919)
Hmm.
Beth (36:21.116)
and pulling cards for how I feel about this certain thing that's occurring in my life and being able to get validation, I think, in that I'm feeling multiple ways about it and that's normal and okay and valid and also good to be able to experience depth of understanding and feeling in
Reese Brown (36:40.599)
Yeah.
Beth (36:48.8)
those situations, you know. I also like to do it to connect with, I also like to use Tara to connect with my cat. She's over here sleeping right now, because I can see like how she's feeling and how she's doing and I've been thinking about getting a second cat and how she would feel about that.
Reese Brown (37:04.414)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. How do you think it helps you connect to, so of course you talked a little bit about your tier system with your spirit guides, archangels, and then the universe. How do you think it helps you connect to that higher power?
Beth (37:24.86)
It just, you can kind of like, when you're doing a reading, asking for advice on something or asking for a prediction on how something's going to go.
or something, it's become easier and easier to like feel the like energy and like love of the universe in my guides like as I'm doing a reading and to be able to like
hear and feel the answers and so I it's really nice to be able to like read tarot and to just sit in that energy and it feels like really good.
Reese Brown (38:12.454)
Yeah, I like to think of it. I mean, so of course, jumping back even more to the beginning, talking about how we both live in Texas, we're both from Texas. Being in a Christian background, you're raised with prayer as being like the way you communicate with higher power, right?
The older I get and the more that I do explore these different mediums that you can use to get in touch with yourself, get in touch with your inner feelings, other people, connect. I'm like, what is tarot, if not prayer, but with a deck of cards, same as meditation and yoga. It's just a way to communicate. It's like a conduit. I love that.
Beth (38:57.844)
Yeah, yeah. I also have like also recently been enjoying prayer in and of itself because growing up, I didn't really understand prayer. I didn't think that you were actually like connecting with anything when you did it. And you're just talking to yourself. No, I honestly still do that.
Reese Brown (39:10.039)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (39:14.478)
Yeah, well, and I feel like a lot of kids are like, hey, God, help me pass this test, man. But yeah. Yeah. But probably with such a different intention, right? That's like, hey, I'm actually trying to connect. Help me help myself do this thing. Right. Like totally.
Beth (39:39.239)
Yeah. Instead of like reaching into the void, it's more of like being able to like pinpoint the energy because you're already familiar with it. Yeah.
Reese Brown (39:46.538)
Yes, I love that. Sorry, I totally cut you off with that. Please continue. Ha ha.
Beth (39:50.612)
No. That's okay. I forgot what I was saying. I lose my train of thought really, really easily.
Reese Brown (39:56.098)
No, you are all good. That is on me, hand up. As much as I do this, sometimes I'm like, that is not what an interviewer should do, Reese. Calm down.
Beth (40:06.412)
Listen, I will start a sentence and then get to the end of it and not remember how I started it And so it won't be like a coherent line of thought I think I've been doing that a little bit this session this little podcast and I'm like man I hope I'm answering these questions right
Reese Brown (40:14.527)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (40:18.658)
That's, hey, you are, you are ending up exactly where you need to be. I love it. Um, I love it. I love it. Um, like all over the place. Um, so with connecting to your higher power and with yourself and with other people, what would you say to someone that has like never dabbled in tarot, but is interested in it, maybe from the perspective of
both someone who is like, oh, I might be interested in getting a reading, but also someone who's like, oh, I might be interested in learning how to read. Like both of those perspectives, what would you like say to the newbie?
Beth (40:55.297)
Yeah.
Beth (40:59.852)
For someone who's interested in getting a reading but has never received one before, I would take the time to like, find different readers and see which one is you're feeling drawn to the most. Because not every reader is like for you. Like you can get a reader from somebody and not have it resonate because like energetically you might just not be like aligned.
Reese Brown (41:22.048)
Mmm.
Beth (41:29.504)
Which is also why I like that there's so many different creators on social media who do this because you can really find one that fits with you. Um, and so take your time and find who feels best for you and be open minded. Um, of course. And then with getting into doing a reading for yourself...
Reese Brown (41:37.314)
Yeah.
Beth (41:56.344)
I'm always gonna recommend the Rider Waite deck to start out with because that is how every That's kind of like what every other tarot deck After the Rider Waite is based on But also a lot of like online resources also use the imagery from the Rider Waite in their like interpretations Like Biddy Tarot, I think does that even though they have their own tarot deck
Reese Brown (42:07.723)
Yeah.
Beth (42:22.784)
Yeah, also be patient and don't expect yourself to be good at reading when you first start because you're going to be questioning yourself so much. But I also recommend journaling while you're getting into reading and
Reese Brown (42:36.81)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (42:39.668)
by doing and so just doing like spreads over and over for myself and then like looking up each card as I'm going instead of feeling like I have to like study all of the cards before I even start it's going to be a much more like approachable thing for me I think and for everyone else
Reese Brown (42:56.096)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (43:00.622)
I think that's awesome. Yeah, I love it. One last question before, I always say one last question, but then I always have like closing questions. So this isn't the last question, but it's the last one before those. What is your opinion about good cards and bad cards? I have very strong opinions about this. I remember the first time someone told me like, oh, you got the tower, like be afraid. And I was like,
Beth (43:23.537)
I do too.
Beth (43:29.356)
No, really?
Reese Brown (43:31.1)
I was like, excuse me? What?
Beth (43:33.228)
I almost thought this earlier today, yeah. There's no such thing as a bad card because even good cards can, again, have shadow aspects and negative cards can have really positive aspects. I kind of love the tower, to be honest. I'm also a Scorpio, so I love changing shit up. And so...
The tower to me can be like a really beautiful thing because having experienced like tower moments in my life, they have all like at the time, so not like scary, but like, it's just the rug getting ripped out from underneath your feet and you don't know where to go from there, but you still do go from there because life inevitably like continues and goes on. Like you're gonna wake up tomorrow, it's still gonna, it'll continue. But like.
Reese Brown (44:14.178)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (44:21.251)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (44:24.439)
Yeah.
Beth (44:27.456)
Those moments always put you in a position to have really positive things happening for you. It's just kind of like getting rid of things that aren't working for you, or shifting and moving things that need to be shifted and moved.
Beth (44:52.316)
because of the rep they get and because there's always going to be like a really beautiful positive way to interpret.
Reese Brown (44:58.774)
Yeah, I remember when I like first got my first tarot deck. I didn't know that. So traditionally if you do want to get into reading people recommend that your first deck is gifted to you or that any decks are gifted. That's kind of a thing. Um, I don't know if you believe in that or not, but I bought my, okay. I bought myself my first deck just because I was like, this is cool. I'll buy my first deck and.
the very first reading I did was like tower death card devil. And I'm like flipping through and it's like, you're going to die. Um, be very afraid. Yeah. And looking back on that, I'm like, I revisit that reading in my brain all the time to be like, no, it was a rug being pulled out from under me moment, but not in the sense that like everything is going horribly in the sense that like,
Beth (45:37.159)
You're doomed.
Beth (45:56.108)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (45:57.97)
it's clearing out for thing for better things to come in. And like death is but a rebirth, right? So it's like you have your tower that you have your death and then the devil. It's like, yeah, maybe there's negative energies around you. But that means now, you know, and we can figure out how to work to either clear that out or to transmute that. We literally said that at the same time, we're so insane. I love that. So.
Beth (46:06.873)
Mm-hmm.
Beth (46:11.361)
Yeah.
Beth (46:18.595)
You can transmit. Look at that!
Reese Brown (46:26.658)
Thank you so much for sharing that. Second to last question to kind of start rounding out the pod. Is there anything we missed? Anything that in light of our conversation or because we didn't touch on it or that you wanna clarify or anything like that you would like to mention, throw out there? Anything of the sort.
Beth (46:41.632)
Okay.
Beth (46:51.228)
talk about tarot forever and the meanings of the cards forever. I don't want to take up too much of your time.
Reese Brown (47:00.21)
No, what's one of your favorite meanings of one of your favorite cards?
well, and like, even saying favorite card, that's like, what's your favorite kid, right? it's like, they're all good yeah
Beth (47:15.033)
I always love the like, romance-y love cards just because I love connecting with people, even if I'm such an introvert. Um...
Reese Brown (47:21.211)
No.
Beth (47:28.44)
of cups I think actually because it's always so sweet and the two of cups to me is not it's not always inherently romantic it can just literally be like best friend vibes um but then you can also read it in the way that like your best friend as a romantic partner could be like coming in or that person is going to have like an emphasized uh moment in your life
Reese Brown (47:39.062)
Yeah.
Beth (47:55.692)
coming up soon or something like that. And so I just, I love like sweetness between people and I love to like observe that and like feel that energy in my reading. And I always get that with a two of cups.
Reese Brown (48:07.307)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (48:11.298)
That is so lovely. I also love your attitude of keeping things lighthearted and sweet and joyful, because I think so often when you get into these kinds of mediums in different like metaphysical practices, a lot of the times you can find like things that are like spooky or like darker things just because...
Beth (48:35.693)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (48:40.514)
There is an acknowledgement inherently within Terra, within astrology, within anything in that world, that anything good also has the bad too, right? That like everything is double-sided. So I think it can be easier for people who are dealing with that for the first time to stumble into like a negative energy. And so finding someone that is so focused on like the lightheartedness, but knowing that doesn't take away from the depth, I think is beautiful.
Beth (49:08.128)
Yes.
Reese Brown (49:10.882)
Um, okay. I actually do have one more question. How has Tarot helped you live a meaningful life? What has it meant for you in being purposeful?
Beth (49:16.12)
I'm going to go to bed.
Beth (49:28.668)
Oh boy. Um, everything. It's kind of just, Taro has kind of given me purpose in that like, I know this is what I'm meant to be doing, at least in this moment. And if not, then like for the rest of my life, hopefully. And so be, and it's just, it helps me.
Reese Brown (49:34.082)
I'm sorry.
Reese Brown (49:39.81)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (49:49.624)
Yeah.
Beth (49:59.18)
meaning to life and it helps me understand life better.
Beth (50:06.62)
and recognize that like, life has, like tarot, like there are like the more like really positive cards that are really awesome and life has those like really positive awesome moments but then there's cards that...
also talk about like despair or disappointment or things just not working out for you or being wrapped up in your own head or being caught up in like obsessive energies maybe and like that life also have those moments but despite that with like the progression of tarot from like um temperance like things are balancing out the devil you've kind of got yourself caught up in these obsessive or like
not toxic energies, but like maybe, but addictive energies maybe, and then the tower comes in and like wrecks all of that for you, but then after the tower you have the star, which is all about like hope, renewal, serenity, and like knowing that like wherever you move toward is going to be the right direction.
Reese Brown (51:11.814)
Yeah, that's so, so beautiful. Last question to round out our conversation. What is one word that describes how you're feeling right now? And if you want to, I've never done this before, but I'm like, if your word is like a tarot card to describe how you're feeling right now, like you could do that too, but you don't have to. Normally I do a word, but I'm like, that could be fun, but up to you.
Beth (51:31.947)
Oh
Beth (51:36.312)
What did you find, Emma? Umm... Three of Cups.
Reese Brown (51:41.698)
Okay, tell us why.
Beth (51:44.296)
Well, Three of Cups is like very fun, also lighthearted, but it's like a very friendly energy and very like positive and like upbeat and you're just like hanging out with your friends and having a good time.
Reese Brown (51:47.712)
Yes.
Reese Brown (51:56.298)
Yeah, I really love that. And I've loved this conversation and getting to meet you. I'm feeling so grateful that Emma was able to connect us. Yes, and I am so excited to share this with the Making Meaning audience. So again, if y'all want to check out Beth and her work, TikTok, YouTube, Tarot Deck, and all of the other places where you can find Beth and Bone Dead Tarot will be
Beth (52:08.408)
Cool.
Reese Brown (52:26.09)
in the YouTube description, podcast notes, wherever you are listening to this, you will be able to find it. So please go support Beth and thank you so much Beth for doing this, being here, and sharing your time and energy with me.
Beth (52:41.321)
Thank you so much for having me. I had a lot of fun.
Reese Brown (52:43.882)
Yes, me too. Okay, I will talk to you soon. Bye.
Beth (52:46.985)
Okay.