Using Astrology to Understand the Self and Others with Professional Astrologer and Musician Kelly Kasle

Kelly thank you so much for taking the time to drive over here meet with me chat with me I am really so thrilled to have you on the podcast thank you so much for having me yes absolutely so the first question I always like to start with it's just what's one thing you're grateful for today I think it just sets the tone nicely for the rest of our conversation so whatever comes to mind right now I am very grateful for the Dallas community that I have found since really grounding here in March of 2023 I've been trying to figure out whether I was going to move to Austin or Miami but once I found a yoga studio here that I loved and a community there it just blossomed and opened up this whole other side of this city that I had never experienced before even after growing up here and going to grad school here and I'm just so grateful for the people here in Dallas that's wonderful Community is so important and I feel like too with um like finding a yoga studio specifically it's like you're starting with that base of something that we all have in common that you can build off of I love that and I think also there's a misconception about Dallas because is like in the Heart of Texas but there's still like the diversity of types of people and types of things that are happening I feel like I'm always meeting someone new and different and doing something new especially right now because I grew up here you grew up here and I did see and experience the stereotypes that are typical of this C they do exist yes there is all the old money like it's cuz I went to SMU for grad school but I was in the music school so I was with all artists and musicians all the time and I wanted to escape Dallas yeah and so I I did I I moved to Los Angeles and I built a career there um but when Co hit chose to come back here and my decision to stay here was because I saw that there is this blossoming of spirituality and this these seeds being planted here in Dallas and I I think that a lot of us are actually getting called to the city right now to bring in that energy well and that's such a wonderful um segue actually into the second question I always ask which is what's your story so if you want to flash back to the beginning and then take us here but I love that kind of encapsulation of what brought you to right now because like said we both grew up in Dallas and when I was deciding where to go to college I was like it's either East Coast or West Coast I'm not staying here I'm not staying in the Midwest and then I ended up in Fort Worth which is like was totally crazy and not where I ever expected to be but having returned to Dallas even though Fort Worth and Dallas are of course very close I have been able to find people that in high school and middle school I couldn't really find and of course part of that is putting myself out there but I think you're really spoton in that there is something in the air here right now but I'll toss it back over to you anything else you want to add on to what is your story and what has brought you to Here In This Moment definitely so I grew up here and quickly discovered that I had a talent for playing the bassoon which for anyone that doesn't know what the bassoon is it is a very tall skinny almost clarinette looking woodwin instrument and loved it uh loved being in band I was in the great Dallas Youth Orchestra and um when I was considering what to do for college I had just returned from a Youth Orchestra tour to China and when I went on that tour I had this moment of of Revelation essentially in one of the concerts and realized I could make a living out of doing this yeah and I could actually get to go and travel the world doing something that I love and so when I applied to college I applied for both music and chemical engineering because you said both ends of the spectrum yeah I knew I knew how I stacked up against Texas kids in terms of the music world had gotten into all state and all these things but I didn't know how I was going to stack up against the rest of the country or even the world for sure and honestly I wanted to have a more traditional college experience and so I mostly applied to schools that had really good music programs and colleges like Northwestern USC Michigan and then I had a couple of reaching schools like Oberlin and Eastman and I ended up getting in to all of them for both right which you're like cool this made my decision so much harder but also what a great vote of confidence too yeah and so it was really cool getting into Eastman um and my dream School Was northwestern but kind of like you Northwestern did not give a whole lot of scholarship money to undergrads so really when it came down to it I got the most scholarship money from Eastman and it was kind of a no-brainer so I had not just like you had not expected to end up at a Music Conservatory in kind of a small City too I mean I was really excited to go to the east coast Rochester New York um and so that's what started it all off and I there are so many people that when they start down the musical path they have this Grand dream of getting into one of the big orchestras having a solo career these sorts of things and I never never really had that I just loved playing and I got to go to all these festivals and things it was fun uh but I did have a entrepreneurial Spirit like my dad and so as eastmen happened to have um the first and kind of the top Arts entrepreneurship program wow how cool is that yeah so I got really involved with that I worked for a jazz radio station for a year and a half I got to go and do press at Music Festival I got to help I worked in the Arts entrepreneurship office for 3 years and so I knew I wanted to build kind of a freelance career for myself and have the option to both play and do other things and so ultimately after finishing both of my degrees uh it's pretty typical for a classical musician to do their undergrad and Masters back to back oh interesting I yeah it's going going to grad school school is kind of like getting two more years to practice Yeah okay checks out especially if you get um a a a good scholarship to go then it's kind of like two fre years of practice you're like this is better than adulting out in the real world and getting to stay and do what you love more and learn from more people yeah so did that and then like as soon as I had my degree in my hands packed up my car and moved to Los Angeles and I built a career as a freelance performer educator and um event producer in Los Angeles so I live there for five years I've produced everything from a two-e music festival to a little intimate uh chamber music performance with like 75 people I've produced music videos and just living in Los Angeles was a whole lot of fun and I got to live out my dream essentially and and do the thing right right you're like I don't want to do the even though I feel like a lot of people would look at a music career and say that's such a non-traditional career it sounds like there is still a very traditional way to go about doing the classical musician career and life and what that quote unquote should look like right so being able to kind of buck that stereotype a little bit but still embrace the freedom and creativity of choosing and creating your own path yeah that's really wonderful I love that so that was really fun uh but then of course Co hit yeah yeah and um going into 2020 just life was going so well I had finally like really built a secure career for myself I was starting to make good money and uh all of that went away overnight especially with events and live performance like it's rooted in being in person gone I I still had my students to take with me online um but I did sck it out in La through 2020 I think like most people I was thinking oh the world is going to turn back on you know I just got to hang out kind of let it play itself out um but of course that's not what happened and um going into the second half of the year my dad ended up passing away pretty suddenly thank you of um things not related to at all right um but once that happened I just said you know what I'm going to go back to Texas um I'm going to be with family I was to say so since you grew up here originally you all your or most family is here okay yes most of my family is here and so I I came back to Dallas and I said you know what I'll use this time to kind of figure out well it was the first time I had to I I was confronted with and I had to ask myself the question if I wasn't doing music with my life what else would I do yeah I had no idea this this was the first time I was having an identity crisis right which is crazy but also I so relate to that I don't know if we've talked about this before Oh probably a little bit but I grew up acting on stage and in film and going to college was kind of this moment of like am I going to go to an acting Conservatory or am I going to do anything else um when this is like the that I've been all my life like you're special at you're talented for this um but also it's non-traditional it's a creative path it's a risky path um and to have to 180 on that I'm like when so much of your identity is tied up in one thing it is so easy for like one string to be pulled and it all all crumbles yeah yeah and and that's where you realize we are multi-dimensional beings and we have all these different personalities inside of ourselves different versions that we can express and so um you know through all of this this though I had been um studying Alternative Health practices and manifestation and Neuroscience for about a decade for fun that was kind of my hobby in the background uh I started doing that in 2010 that was around the time my dad got sick I was also dealing with some of my own health issues so as a family we kind of went on this journey together and what started as a journey just to heal our health ailments turned into a spiritual journey yeah well they are so interconnected and I think the more that we see like Eastern medicine practices coming to the west and being um more understood yes the more and more people are understanding how functional Wellness really is this marriage between like the mind soul and body and how do you heal the entirety of this self not just yeah one slap a Band-Aid on it right yeah exactly you you look at one organ at a time same thing with medicine and it it's funny because when I look back now even though I moved to Los Angeles for a music career La also happens to be the mecca of spirituality unit States it's almost like uh and this is where you have to develop your trust with the universe and we truly are in a dance with the universe y um just like with both you and I in in choosing what college to go to the universe had a much bigger plan for both of us that we couldn't see at that time but it was nudging us and saying you know you're going to be okay this is the path you really need to go um so being in La I really got to explore spirituality and develop a yoga practice I got into Kundalini yoga meditation sound back like just all the things all the things yeah I love it and so now you're here and you have a blossoming astrology practice um as well as being the in-house astrologer for I'm assuming the yoga studio you found the community jungle a couple you know different places around town um where kind of figuring out now where the the communities that already are open to these things are really excited to start digging into it more and so we're we're kind of trying to figure out right now okay where are those places where are those places yeah well and then certainly you start building that traction and it spreads and blooms and gets bigger and bigger but that is so wonderful and I think talking about building your trust with the universe it really is such a practice and a muscle of like letting go yes right and even though it's like typically like letting go you don't think of it as a muscle you think of like oh I need to cling on tightly but it is practicing like releasing that and trusting whatever is going to come to be the right Next Step what has that Journey been like for you through this kind of process of being guided down these different Pathways and having this change of career several times and even your first postgrad school career is very multifaceted right so how has your relationship with trusting the universe developed and changed that's a great question I would say I got the first big dose of that building my freelance career in LA because especially in our Western World I grew up with with so much structure and I was go go go my calendar was booked from 7:30 a.m. until essentially 8:30 p.m. right every single night until I graduated grad school yeah and so now for the first time at 24 years old I have nothing on my calendar ahead of me Mon and so I literally had to go out and figure out how to meet people get into these scenes start to develop work and so that was my first big trust muscle experiment to say I trust that the universe is going to bring me things and that my calendar is going to be booked up a week from now a month from now and there certainly were some scary moments I remember at the end of my first year in Los Angeles I had completely run out of money and like luckily at that time I was already uh set up to go and play at a bunch of Summer music festivals the the music world Works essentially like the school calendar it's fall and winter and then the summer season um so my roommate was moving out of of the place that we had so I just put my stuff into storage for the summer I was like you know what I'm going to go play these festivals I'll come back and kind of like restart and get get going again and that's what I did and I remember in that moment of just being like I have no idea what I was going to do I was there was almost panic attack coming on yeah I sat down on the floor and I closed my eyes I put my hands in my lap and I just took some really deep breaths and I did just did this really basic meditation where I said you know what there's a floor under me holding me up there's walls around me there's food in the fridge there's water coming out of the sink I actually have everything that I need and I am so supported and that was all that I needed to just calm everything down and be able to take another step forward and so um through the process of becoming a freelancer yeah that that was the big thing and then starting over in LA or starting over here excuse me it has taken about two years to get really specific on on the what the what is going to look like essentially like what Avenues because I still I get bored really easily and this is like what shows up in all of my astrology and human design and everything um and so I do have a couple of different projects on my plate um and I just had to get comfortable with kind of what my manifestation processes and so maybe we can kind of segue absolutely so I'll start kind of with what my own manifestation process looks like please please so I think also being an aquarius I'm very curious I like to research things go really deep with things and so I always ask a question first and I say you know what how does astrology work for example or what does this person what role does this person have in my life or where is my lover yeah yeah you know and so instead of coming from a place of desire and which could be mistaken by that wanting feeling which actually repels things from you because that is the feeling of being in lack of um I send out the question of hey Universe show me what would it look like to blah blah blah and I accompany it with the feeling which which is of course uh what Dr Joe despenza teaches and he has had a huge impact him and his work have had a huge impact on my life um so kind of uh with that like tying this back into my own Journey um in around 2018 because in La my freelance career essentially looked very different every six months sure yeah there were basically seasons of things well in freelance is just always in flux always yes and so there'd be a season of a lot of teaching and then a lot of producing and what I was Finding was I was starting to get a lot of work but at the same time as you hear about in the entertainment world and some of these things um there are Gatekeepers and it's like you have to put in your hours before you can get really paid and I was getting so frustrated because I was doing these huge jobs and also think like if you compare becoming a musician or Entertainer to the young coders Who come out of these prestigious schools and are immediately given six figure salaries and stuff I'm like I've been doing this since I was 11 years old I am in the 1% of people like almost in the world who play my instrument I am an expert yeah exactly and and you're telling me you don't want to pay me there there was that huge disconnect and I started to wake up and realize also I had hit a point with my health Journey where I had healed a lot of my physical ailments but I still had a lot of emotions that were eating at me on the inside and so that's when I started seeking the more spiritual understandings of things and dealing with the emotions and realized for me talk therapy really wasn't my route but working with energetic healers like raiki practitioners and sound baths and and hypnosis were working and those are the things that change the game interesting so what made you first want to explore energetic healing was it just this search and it was like the next thing to try outan I was yeah I was basically I was broken and searching for anything yeah I I was anything yeah I I was on the floor crying in my bedroom um I was just asking the universe like why are all of these things happening and why to um I had grown up in the middle of a really bad divorce and even watching my dad get so so sick I mean he was diagnosed with just about stage four cancer wow like when you are confronted with those kind those magnitudes of obstacles you start asking more questions of course well and if this is too personal feel free not to answer but growing up in Texas was Christianity a part of your spirituality story before and then there was this bit of deconstruction I imagine just I don't want to project my own experience by any means but I know that for me when these huge obstacles first start coming with people who grew up with religious backgrounds that big question of why tends to be a huge thing of actually there isn't really a good answer for why an omniscient and all kind God would exactly exactly put anything negative on us there really isn't a good answer for it and philosophers and theologians have spent years trying to come up with um I forget what it's called but the theory of like why evil exists right exactly yes exactly I don't know if that's part of your experience so uh I didn't have so many uh I I didn't have much of an in I should say it this way religion did not have a huge influence on my upbringing I was I grew up uh my mom was Methodist my dad was Catholic so I did first communion I was baptized in the Catholic church right um but by the time I was around 9 or 10 years old my parents really stopped going chur chur and so yeah it it really didn't have an influence on me now I mean growing up in Texas I was surrounded by all the southern baptist oh yeah went to church on Wednesdays and went to church on Sundays and you know they wanted to help save you yeah yeah well and it's almost impossible I think in Texas to avoid religion impacting you at all even if it's not in your family of origin it is still the way you are socialized oh yeah I mean just when you check out at the grocery store or or a shop or something have a blessed day exactly yeah you're going to hear that everywhere and so it was a huge change going from Texas moving to Upstate New York where all of a sudden I was surrounded by especially a lot of atheists a lot of non-christians other religions and even it kind of shocked me within the music Community because in general most people in the entertainment world are very left leaning right and so I had grown up in a very conservative environment I didn't necessarily establish my own views and stuff on Politics as high schooler I started kind of exploring that once I was in college right um but it was shocking to me that I had met so many musicians who were atheists or didn't believe because music is such a spiritual practice I'm so glad you brought that up too because one thing that I remember you mentioning that I think is a really powerful like key into unlocking some of these um synchronicities is you being attracted to music and music being like a mode of frequency yes in that as you pluck the strings or blow the air or whatever you are manipulating the energy and the atoms around you to create a new frequency right um and I have a similar experience with acting where it's like you are engaging in a space with another person in live moment right the same way that we're connecting right now is the same energy that you would have in a scene um and so it is so interesting where I'm like coming from a religious background now agnostic question mark right it's like a big why um but I still see all of those things as so powerfully connected and a part of the universe and a part of spirituality to know that there are people who are like no music is amazing art is amazing but there is no higher power or higher connection I think that that is fascinating yeah and and that's when for the people that believe we are essentially just a walking bag of chemicals and Bones um that's where I just have to ask the question well why are we here and why do we experience emotions and connection um if if that's the case why not go out and create a world where those things don't exist yeah absolutely 100% so how do you answer that question yeah so what I found in my journey and and again kind of going back to that moment where I was having this spiritual awakening I know we're kind of jumping around so thank you for taking us yeah and and going like why are all these things happening and it's like I was doing everything right on paper you know and I was doing what I had been taught were the ways of building a career I'm a good kid I'm a good student I'm a good worker ex yeah exactly and it was just like something isn't right and what I learned is that emotions are the root of all illness and so with that Mind Body Soul connection I really believe we are here to make the connection between those three things and in my journey on on discovering these things I do believe that there are these Universal principles and laws that create this reality and one of them is the law of polarity for black to exist white has to exist right and vice versa and so in in that time period uh I think it was like through this guy that I was dating the book conversations with God came to me and again this is like when you send out those questions you have to be receptive to the universe sending you messages I do believe it is always speaking with us it's always sending us signs and it even it's going to send you signs in a way that you will fully understand and see you may think this is insane like some if I was sitting here and ask a question I look over and see a book and go huh you know o something's really calling me to that book yeah or you bump into someone at the grocery store and they say something it just Sparks something yes um those sorts of things the universe is always sending you the answers and my answer came in the form of this book conversations with God that laid out all of these principles like polarity like what is good and evil really right why are we here um and I'm going to leave some of those answers for people to go and explore because I highly highly recommend this book like for anyone that's kind of at the beginning of their Spiritual Development Journey this is always the book that I give like gives you like aorus Board of all of the questions yeah and so that book helped me to see and understand that especially with the childhood that I GRE grew up in um I was just harboring all of these emotions and I even did this this breath work Journey once um where it's the vision started me in eth grade I had a really close best friend that got a really serious case of lime for a long long time and it took me from there and it went back until I was maybe 2 or 3 years old and I could see how as a young child I was basically the sponge for all of the emotions around me between my parents and people that got sick and that had just gotten stuck in my energetic field and so until I cleaned that out I wasn't moving forward and I was attracting like attracts like that's where the frequency comes in and so I was attracting all these people around me that either wanted a piece of my positive energy or were vibrating on that same frequency of pain and suffering and so I had to get that stuff out and as soon as I started doing these practices for me especially Kundalini Yoga like my whole reality just shifted I I didn't actually do anything externally it was just from practicing Kundalini Yoga the jobs that no longer aligned just fell away new people came in and it was just like magic yeah you're like whoa when you start paying attention to it in it's almost like such a rudimentary example but it's like whatever you're watering will grow and whatever you're now taking water away from it will wither away you don't have to do anything else besides the attention you're paying and the energy you're feeding it yes it'll take care of itself yes yeah very much so wow so amazing energetic journey and of course now you're involved in all of this metaphysical spiritual work here shifting gears just a smidge when did astrology and later on human design really come into the picture as a mode of understanding self understanding other and continuing this work so as I had mentioned in Los Angeles I had already gotten into the energetic work and especially a lot of the Neuroscience work so studying the conscious mind and the subconscious mind and around the time uh this program called to be magnetic created by a woman named Lacy Phillips was becoming really popular so I did that program at that time was seeing great results but when Co hit and again this was the moment of of just oh my God like I I won't curse sitting here but it was just like oh my God like with my dad dying losing my career and so I was just like this is a moment I can't explain with any of this work that I've done thus far with all of these things hitting at the exact same time this is on a higher level this isn't subconscious programming stuff I did not subconsciously manifest a planemic and my dad dying right all at the same time yeah exactly and so that's again when I went searching for answers why why is this happening and I had been following again like through listening to podcast AC guy Nam David Palmer the Leo King and um he had a very popular Monday Night YouTube show called Deep Love Tarot that I would tune into and it was just really fun to start getting into it I was kind of like H you know this astrology stuff is interesting and he had in 2017 predicted a plague coming in 2020 and he was warning everyone that you guys you can't even imagine how much the world is about to change that's crazy and then it happened and all of his predictions started coming true and me again you have to remember like I could have gone to school for chemical engineering I have AAL research brain and even growing up as a musician I mean it's been well studied and documented that especially if you start music from a young age it's one of the few activities that equally uses and develops both sides of the brain um so the communication between the two too right yes exactly um so now I had all of this free time yeah and I just started studying astrology kind of as if I was getting a college degree like I mean I bought two crates of books I started taking his classes and I started going back through my own life and I charted out all of the major moments and I went holy [ __ ] it's all there yeah like I can map it to the planets in this little circular chart and I'm getting Goosebumps obviously this is something that I practice and buy into but I think that it's um it's so common for someone to just know their sun sign which is the typical sign that for anyone who's very new to astrology that if you know any sign about yourself it's your sun sign the one that everyone's like oh for me I'm a Virgo um and you just hear that and it's like well there's only 12 um every single human being doesn't fit into one of 12 personalities and then immediately discounts it the other skeptic answer that or question that I am fascinated by is well what about twins right and how does that challenge astrology um what questions popped up for you as you were first studying was there anything that was like that doesn't quite make sense digging further and then you found something that did true there was there any moment like that that's an interesting question not that immediately came to mind um so for anyone who's never looked at an astrology chart it's actually a wheel and essentially you are in the middle of the wheel looking up at the sky and it's a snapshot of where all of the planets were the moment that you were born right and so it does depend on the latitude and longitude of literally where you were born and the time of where you were born where the sun was hitting the Horizon at that time so with twins even there is a couple minute difference in their charts yeah which even with that could change their rising sign which which does kind of alternate the chart a bit right um and it's interest yeah I I haven't had any twin clients yet to more explore that that'll be interesting whenever it does come up into my that's always been my answer though I'm like well the precise time actually is super important and something that doesn't feel like it can impact it right now like as you're exploring the cycle and different Reflections a tiny shift or change or a slight degree change of something really can make an impact when you're reading it scientifically logically yes and so the practice of astrology it it mirrors music so well and it's funny I kind of tell people now that it's almost like I have gone through pl's mystery school because I became a musician I went to school for music while I was in music school I worked on a math minor um because I loved Math and Science I needed something to balance out my brain being at a Music Conservatory so I do have a high degree of math knowledge um and then I got into this astrology thing which like those are the the three foundations

and saw that each language is just a mirror of the other just with different symbols and terminology and so it was very easy for me to understand astrology once I started putting together all the pieces and the layers um it's it's very similar to music first you have to learn what each of the notes is you have to learn like what's a half note what's a quarter note and once you learn what the things are then you can put it all together and create an analysis but just like music it's not a purely logical form it is both scientific and artistic yes and it in doing a session with someone it does require a degree of intuition and channeling which I have always been extremely intuitive since I was a really little kid I mean I'm a triple Pisces right I have a 29° Mercury in Pisces so clearly I'm connected to something out there I don't even quite know yet what that is um but I always growing growing up had these crazy intuitions about people and especially when it came to warning people about things that would happen and this is where people want to debate with manifestation um well anything is possible and I say yeah but we do live in this third dimension of form form does exist yeah every human for the most part we have two arms we have 10 fingers and toes two legs we don't grow a third arm we don't grow 11 fingers there is a reason for all of this even if we don't understand it and same thing I've seen energetically with people's lives um I do believe in this concept of the Soul being this Everlasting energetic thing and it's essentially a record of all of our lives and then my own belief is that we're here to just have experiences simply and experience all these different parts of reality so so when you say the soul is an everlasting thing do you believe that as like each individual soul is an everlasting thing or there's one universal soul that we all tap into to have experiences or so mix yeah it's both I feel like that's always the answer like it's both yeah I think we should probably save that one for a different day we want to go like deep into some theoretical rabbit holes um but just to keep it plain and simple of like this life I do believe that our soul chose to come here and have very particular experiences as I am sitting here as this woman named Kelly with brunette hay and I was born to these parents and my soul chose all of that um just like your soul chose you to be Rees Brown and to be a Virgo and you know these sorts of things right or to learn those specific lessons right like what is the challenge or the growth edge of this iteration of who I am right like quote unquote and that's my Southern Baptist back I'm like I am is the um like Hebrew traditional verbage of God and in the beginning was the word and the Word was God and God was I am right and so choosing who I am is also a deeply um like connected to your higher power right um I want to go back to what you said about how these different pathways are just different languages that actually mirror each other because this is something that I have always found extremely interesting because in my own journey of acting um philosophy and writing as my kind of big three but of course there's psychology in there as well and sociology um I've always had the same experience of well each of these things is truly just tapping into The Human Experience and what it means to be a human being um and we're using different languages to talk about this so I would love to hear a little bit more about that realization for you these being mirrored languages this is a great question and I'm going to answer it in a slightly different way and this is one of the things I love about astrology and even tying this into manifestation is what I love that astrology shows us is when I look at a chart I can tell what that person's perspective on life is so essentially if it's someone who is a very strong Leo they are seeing the world through the lens of a Leo they're wanting to have that experience if it's someone which they're going to care more about having fun being creative like yeah kind of being the center of the party right whereas someone who is super Aquarius is going to be very logical put together somewhat emotionless and is going to care about the logical side of it so all of these elements of reality are all part of this experience and it's essentially you could you could say it's like wearing different colored glasses in that you are getting a different lens on life so someone who's really into psychology that's like very Gemini is seeing the world through that lens someone who's really into music wants to have the experience again tying it back to that we're all here to have these unique experiences they want to experience the emotions of it they don't really care so much about how it it's put together I'm like I don't really want to know how it works just let me feel something yeah um and the same goes with manifestation it's it's not so much that you can't this is like another conversation for another day sure sure sure it's it's not that anything isn't possible it's more what exactly do you want the first part of any manifestation is you have to know exactly what you want you be specific yes and you have to decide and so not everyone is going to want everything and there's going to be multiple ways to go about getting what it is that you want and and experiencing the different flavors of it yeah absolutely so in terms of this different language correct me if I'm wrong but I'm hearing you say that different signs or people's Soul experiences are coming into this life drawn towards a certain modality or activity but all of those are just ways of approaching the same Human Experience yes we're all just approaching it at our own angle and this is where when I look at a chart you know especially more scientific minds they are built that way and that's I just say at a soul level you chose to be built that way you did not choose to be built like an artist and tap into emotions and and typically those sorts of people look at very emotional people like you're kind of an alien going on yeah well and it's so funny when you so going back to something you said at the very beginning talk therapy not really being the right modality for you it's been a huge part of my life my mom's a counselor I've been in therapy since I was 12 and mirroring that modality with all of these other energetic things and finding like oh this is a trauma this is where that stored in my body energetically let's clear it out and then I love that additional step of like talking about it yeah Gemini rising yeah yep um I'm like that's something I really love but it's like I found that I need all of these that was a total tangent but I wanted to ask you about um have you ever read someone who it seems as though they've tried to reject certain elements of their chart or things that um that are innate in their soul that they're like I have tamped that down or like been taught that or socialized that that's not okay how does that manifest exactly so this is typically when people come to me because they are feeling like they're not themselves or they like things are going wrong they don't understand um it's typically because they grew up in a household or an environment where who they were was rejected and suppressed or perhaps even the child who was the people pleaser archetype and wanted to please their parents and so molded themselves because Nothing is Stopping your brain from programming you can program your brain to believe anything I mean if you go study cases about prisoners that get held for like multiple years and decades right and they come to eventually believe that they did the thing that they didn't um yeah society's powers that be have figured out how to program people so um but people typically hit this crisis point where they know at a soul level they can't keep going on like that and actually their soul is like urging them please you have to get back towards your path but with that as well um astrology and and all of this we do live in a dimension of time time is one of those elements we are living through these cycles and so what I see in a chart is this whole platter of gifts and abilities and personality traits um karmic lessons lessons you're going to come in to learn and they don't all hit at once they hit over points of time and so I will see things in a person's chart that upon talking to them they just haven't discovered or developed yet or with each thing again with polarity existing with every element of a chart in our own personalities there is a higher expression of that personality trait and a lower expression of that personality trait you can learn to be more responsive and calm and learn to communicate in an effective way or you can learn to to communicate and respond or I'm sorry react you know in a very detrimental way to yourself and those around you so for me having people learn their charts is all about awareness because there are usually elements of somewhat of of strife discomfort the parts of ourselves that we don't like to look at but are in there and it's about awareness because once you become aware of those things inside of you you have greater choice in how you make decisions the greatest Freedom at least to me I'm like this is talking this is like such a f good thing to say but I'm like being educated about something gives me the most freedom in the world educ is never wrong fully understanding all dimensions of something is always going to give you more freedom to act in a way that is in alignment with yourself and your values yes um and that does come down to the self too right and the more that you are aware of things that either you've suppressed intentionally or unintentionally cuz you know I feel like sometimes I'll be in conversations with people and they're like yeah when I was a kid I loved this thing and and I just haven't done it in years and I'm like you should try it again yeah like you should do it and see what happens because I feel like so often um to even tie this back to um your story and having these changes in career paths and trusting the universe in that um we're told especially in the United States that there is this conveyor belt of success that you're popped on in kindergarten and you go to first grade and then you go to high school and you study really hard to get the good grades to go to a good college to get the good grades to get a good job to make the good money to be happy successful question mark it's like how do 2 plus two does not equal happy right it's like how do we get there and so realizing this is something I've been thinking about a lot the compass that someone else has placed in front of you versus the compass that you're feeling and hearing you talk about like cycles and time and all of these things just being very cyclical and the polarity of that too I just think is super super powerful so anyone out there if there's something that you haven't tried since childhood try it yes um definitely and then I also wanted to continue on the same conversation and ask you about human design I know that it's kind of a slight shift from astrology but yeah so human uhuh human design is it comes from astrology it's based on astrology so just the the little overview here there are these three systems that are popular now astrology human design and Gene keys so astrology has been around for thousands and thousands of years every culture on Earth has their own version of essentially the same thing um and then in the god I really got to remember this year um in around the the 80s okay 80s and it was starting to be in use I believe in the '90s a western man who had this whole Spiritual Awakening ended up uh changing his name to Rah uru downloaded essentially this system called human design which combined the Chinese iing the um the cabala template uh astrology and the chakra systems like all these systems into one and essentially um took what we already looked at in the astrology wheel into another layer of depth and just giving it even like more colors and angles and everything and then uh a guy named Richard rud a few years later in the early 2000s he had been studying uh the human design system and essentially downloaded this new system called genan keys which the way I see it is it's almost like I don't know if he just purely channeled it or actually consciously recognized he pulled specific points from human human design realized that he saw them in this very specific pattern um and put into this system called genan keys there's 64 G genan Keys just like there's 64 human design Gates 64 ey chain right um which is interesting because it actually ties together our modern time system of 12 and 60 minutes with the DNA genetic code the double helix yeah so I'm going pretty deep into my studies on that right now and I I don't have too much to share yet but I will very soon absolutely so what has this added layer to your study introduced for you personally so far and continuing your own um manifestation astrology Journey what has human design and Jean Keys meant for you so for me it gives me more places to go and look for answers it shows me even deeper levels of myself like if when there's been something that I still haven't quite understood in my astrology chart I go and start digging into my human design chart and I go oh oh my gosh there it is okay CU it goes into further detail now the the big few things that anyone can go and look up in their human design which they can go and learn some things about themselves immediately is their profile type and authority and what kind of manifestor they are if they're specific non-specific um you look up if one of your types if you are a manifestor a generator a reflector a projector um and just your your number your profile so if you're a uh 61 or a 35 or two four whatever um those you can quickly and easily see how you are naturally built to communicate with the universe that's what human designs become very popular for and how you go about moving responding reaching out to people so I recommend they go in look at that but if you're doing some really serious deep self-reflection that's where I say okay go pull up your jean Keys chart and all you really have to do that system was designed so beautifully to be a contemplative practice so go and read your your first bubble the life's work bubble go and read Richard ruds um beautifully written he's a gorgeous writer um his little synopsis on that Gan key and then reflect on how that shows up in your life um because all of the signs and all of the keys end up showing up in our life at one point or another not all the time though right but there will be times where you'll be kind of wondering huh what is my relationship to blah blah blah right and that's where you're going to download the insights there you go I love that and I love having this extra layer of answers to find like the way that you phrase that because like you said you love asking questions and asking the why and in you know this as well entrepreneurship and Innovation you have the um why deconstruction where it's like you ask why then you ask why then you ask why again get all the way down and it's like that has just been like it unlocks so many things in the business world in the creative world but also again again different languages to connect back to The Human Experience right so it's like all of these things having that similar um relationship to questioning and searching for answers um I love that so to round out our conversation one last question I want to ask in terms of making meaning it sounds at least to me again don't let me project anything onto you but a lot of your journey has been a about discovering and asking and letting those insights arise as opposed

to I manipulating sounds like a negative word but like going in and like physically manipulating something how describe more of how that making of meaning feels for you yeah so once I learned my astrology in human design chart even Jean keys I mean it all made sense it was just all there and I am one I'm I'm a triple Pisces in the ninth house with which ninth house has to do with exploring Adventure higher education it's like no wonder I love school I love studying like I love exploring Adventure my my purpose in my Jean Keys is literally Adventure in boundlessness um so that's a part of it I'm also a triple Aquarius and Eighth House which is going really deep and finding um the Deep meanings of things root cause and yeah and Aquarius is like finding out basically everything you can about the subject going into the future to pull back um the yeah essentially things that you're going to see and use in the future into this time period getting really technical with it so there's that element of it too um so for me and having a lot of fixed energy in my chart I've always just known exactly who I am I haven't ever had too many questions or like I was never a super self-conscious person about being me yeah and so people would ask me all the time why are you the way you are I got asked that all the time and I could never answer that question I'm like I I don't know I'm just me and I do me I got a lot of push back for it too because people would want to project on no you should do this you should do that i' be like no I'm here to do me yeah that's I I am who I am yeah and and I really was built to be the person to kind of trigger people in a way to like that Aquarius energy is seeing beyond the the future and so you're going to go and do something very strange that people are like what are you doing and why are you doing like I don't quite know but I just know yeah exactly um so that's just kind of been my experience of like I am going to do me no matter what no matter what push back I have and just keep going on the journey I think that is so beautiful and I also think serves as such a great reminder because I deeply believe that everyone was born with some sense of I am who I am right and again connecting back to The Great I Am how however you define that for you um whatever higher power that looks like however you connect to the universe but through the process of living walls are thrown up and it's easier for some than others to stay connected to that right so what a beautiful reminder that everyone has that there that they can root back to um second to last question these are the final two just to round it out one is there anything we missed anything in light of the conversation that you want to clarify go back on throw something else out there anything at all I think this was a really fun conversation today and we there's a few other tangents and rabbit holes we could go down in the future if you like but I'll leave those for another day absolutely I love it um and then final question what is one word that you would describe to you use to describe how you feel right now gratitude gratitude I love that yeah I'm I'm very thank you so much I'm very grateful to you and we are doing this the day after the New Moon Virgo happy birthday to you thank you happy birthday Virgo out there yes and and the word that I use to describe this new Mo imp particular was gratitude this really was not a new moon to actually set intentions because we have six plans retrograde oh yeah we're in retrograde season till the end of the year yes but it was a new moon certainly to practice gratitude for what you already have what's already growing Virgo is the season of being grateful for the Harvest that you got this season and then going in and picking it and and using it for your family and friends and stuff being in service off so gratitude thank you so much for sharing your time your energy your wisdom and expertise with me with the listeners I am so thankful so thank you so much for being here thank you reys thank you