The Connected Story of Feminism, Climate Justice, and Socio-Economic Equity with Osprey Orielle Lake
Reese Brown (00:00.168)
Osprey, thank you so, so much for being here with me this... It's afternoon for me. What time is it where you are? Afternoon. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being here with me this afternoon. I am so deeply excited to discuss the story is in our bones.
Osprey Orielle Lake (00:18.478)
It's afternoon as well.
Reese Brown (00:28.584)
a lovely book that you have written. And just thank you. I want to start with gratitude for you being here.
Osprey Orielle Lake (00:35.598)
Well, I really appreciate being here and thank you for inviting me to be a guest here.
Reese Brown (00:41.096)
Absolutely. So the first question to continue our theme of gratitude thus far that I always like to ask is just what is one thing that you're grateful for right now?
Osprey Orielle Lake (00:51.278)
Right now in this moment, I am grateful that the sun is out today and beautiful, beautiful spring day here in Northern California. I'm appreciating that we've had rains, which you know, we've been through a lot of drought here in California. It may return, but right now it's been very special to have the rains and see all the green and the blossoming flowers and
Reese Brown (01:00.872)
Mmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:21.262)
just the beauty of nature and life and yeah, something I'm very grateful for in this moment.
Reese Brown (01:23.912)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (01:29.096)
I love that. Sunny days are always so lovely and watching everything bloom. It's very energetically aligned with this theme of spring that we're in as well. I love that. Second question I always like to ask, and it is a big one, but I find that it really helps us crack open the rest of what we're going to chat about. And that question is, what is your story? Of course, in your title of your book, you have the story is in our bones, but what is...
Osprey story and if it connects back to this book that is beautiful and perfect, but I would just love to hear whatever you're called to share.
Osprey Orielle Lake (02:09.39)
Such a deep question. We have like six hours. I will do a short version. And yeah, it definitely connects to why I wrote my book, The Stories in Our Bones, How Worldviews and Climate Justice Can Remake a World in Crisis. So that subtitle of how worldviews and climate justice can remake a world in crisis, I think it's really a song I've been singing throughout my.
Reese Brown (02:13.608)
Right?
Osprey Orielle Lake (02:37.454)
life. You know, I talk in the book a lot about my childhood and what influenced me to then eventually create the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network or WECAN, which is the organization that I founded in 2009, which is dedicated to women and our role in really bettering our society and healing the earth and really recognizing the incredible need and powerful role that women are playing.
in regard to this incredible moment of time that we're in and the way to navigate our path forward really depends on girls and women's leadership and that's a big part of my life is women and the earth. If I was going to put it into a little nutshell and just my passion for the rights of nature, for the rights of women, the rights of indigenous peoples, the rights of future generations and to decolonizing our minds and hearts and
as a lot of our beautiful sisters from Brazil, who I just spent this last weekend with, beautiful indigenous leaders from Brazil, they like to say we're reforesting our minds. Not only do we need to reforest the earth and protect the old growth forest, but we need to reforest our minds. And I really love that as well. So yeah, that would be what led me to start my organization, have variations of my career throughout my life, and to write the book.
Reese Brown (03:48.072)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (04:05.768)
Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I think that one thing that you're booked is so brilliantly is tying together this concept of decolonization with not just the physical land, because I think so often that is where we go, but this mental, emotional, spiritual land that is tied to physicality in a lot of ways, but is also intangible, but that property.
is also just as important in what we have say over and autonomy over. So thank you for sharing that. And I guess I just want to go ahead and hop into this on this note, because I think the title really is so brilliant. And like you called some attention to the subtitle as well, but the story is in our bones. The very first thing I thought when I was sent an email regarding this book was,
What a beautiful way to embody story, something that has started with oral history and verbal history. And yes, eventually has been written down, but this notion that something like story that is so intangible, but yet powerful can also be deeply physicalized in the land that is our body, but also the land that we inhabit. What...
What do you think about the concept of embodiment and its connection to story?
Osprey Orielle Lake (05:37.806)
It's so wonderful what you just said. You're very poetic and I love how you articulated that and received the title. For me, that is all I'd ever hoped for is that someone I didn't know like you would pick up the book and have those thoughts just from the title is just a total delight for me to hear. So thank you for that reflection. It's really encouraging. A lot of times when you do these projects, you're in your...
Reese Brown (05:49.064)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (06:00.264)
Absolutely.
Osprey Orielle Lake (06:05.966)
little space in your computer by yourself and you wonder, what is this going to do? Is this going to ever touch anybody? So it's very lovely to hear your words and you're spot on about your sense of what I was trying to convey in that I'm looking at the story in our bones for many different aspects. One is just the fact that we are of the earth.
We literally are part and particle of nature. And so this whole idea that, you know, we're part of this earth lineage as human beings, which right now, unfortunately, many people feel very separate from in our modern society. We've sort of lost those root stories. We're talking about stories and lineages and ancestries and histories of what I like to call pre -patriarchal.
Reese Brown (06:33.8)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (06:58.894)
and pre -colonized times, which we're all a part of. We are all indigenous to someplace at some point in time. And even though through modernization and all the things that have happened through what we call the civilized world and the rise of colonization and modern times, there is such a deep sense of separation from the fact of us being.
our bodies part of the earth. And as you know, from reading the book, I go through a whole several chapters talking about, you know, how we not just metaphorically, but in reality come from the stars and how we're made up our DNA, our structure, all of the elements of our body literally come from the stars. And how important is to remember those stories of how we are forever intimately connected. We are nature.
Reese Brown (07:29.864)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (07:57.966)
And I think this is very healing for people. And also it's different when we embody that sense because we're no longer carrying this orphanage from the living earth. And I think part of the position we're in right now is how do we recollect and remember and rejuvenate this understanding that we're part of an animate living cosmology. We're part of an animate earth.
Reese Brown (08:08.424)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (08:24.27)
The stones are alive, the bones are alive, the trees are alive, the rivers are alive, and we are alive within that web of life. And I think this is crucial to whatever we're interested in, whether it's our wellbeing, or as you know, I'm very politically involved with the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network, or projects that we do. When we go upstream, coming from that place makes a huge difference, which is the worldview part, which is where do our worldviews come from?
and how do we get them reconnected to an Earth narrative and a narrative that is anti -racist and a narrative that is decolonized, a narrative that can bring us into a different economy that respects the natural laws of the Earth. So all of these things are stories that we carry, even if we don't remember them. So the book is really an encouragement and sort of a map about how do we reconnect with these stories because stories are so important. They reflect our worldview.
our ethics. And yes, I get into some really deep topics around how our religious beliefs have influenced us, how patriarchy has influenced us, and how we need to dismantle and deconstruct a lot of these dangerous systems and feed ourselves a new story that is really healthy and equitable. And this is what I'm really getting at. And it starts with our bodies and embodying and understanding who we are.
which is why the story's in our bones. And also just to say that I was looking, you know, just at the science of our bones and how they create our red blood cells and some of our DNA is also kept in our bones. And so bones are also a place where world making and life is being generated every day in our own bodies.
Reese Brown (10:00.904)
That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And I hadn't even made that connection between the more scientific biological piece of bones really being this foundation of actual physical world making happening within our bodies all the time, constantly.
That is so fascinating. One thing that you just said that I found really beautiful is that we have this orphanage from the living earth. And I think that that's such a beautiful word to use in this conversation, specifically because when we think about earth, we often think about the mother, Mother Gaia, Mother Goddess. And orphanage, of course, is tied to an alienation between
parent and child. Can you talk to me a little bit more about the land being a form of source for humans?
Osprey Orielle Lake (11:13.71)
Yes, I think one of the you know, you're asking when we first started like what what do I have appreciation for? And I was sharing about nature mother earth. I think you know that on the other end of it I think my biggest grief and sadness Is around how humans are treating each other and then I would also say the land And the grief that so many people carry around feeling disconnected not connected community
whether that's the human community or the community of the ecosystems that we live within. And especially because most of the world's populations now live in urban environments. So it's really even more so easy to forget even the fact that we're on all these electronic devices all day and what we're focusing on in the media isn't necessarily nature oriented. On top of it all, many of us are living in cities. So we can forget that the earth is underneath the cement.
you know, that the sky is above and the moon and the stars and the sun are, you know, cycling around us and that we are on a living planet. It is so easy under the pressures of just, you know, paying our rent and putting food on the table and managing family situations and everything else. It's really hard to remember this, the fact that we're on this living earth and the generosity of all that mother earth gives to us wherever we are. And so,
For me, the question of the land is how do we help each other and help ourselves reconnect to nature in any way we can because this is what can bring so much healing to us and also undoes that sense of orphanage. I think it's a deep pain that many people carry, even if it's not named. Just something about I'm not totally present. I'm not really fulfilling what I'm here to do in this life.
I think one of the most important things is to go back to the earth and listen to the land and remember who we are as children of the earth and this incredible gift of life. And it all seems so simple, like we should know these things, but the fact is we're not usually connected to them or it's not even something we talk about on a regular basis whatsoever. And we have all these other worries. And yet I find that when we connect with the earth, there's so much healing, there's a lot of fears can be assuaged.
Reese Brown (13:28.104)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (13:37.134)
There's a lot of knowledge and wisdom that comes directly from the land when we're quiet and we listen. And I would just offer for people, you know, to go for walks whenever you can. Even, you know, every city has a city park. You know, go in the daylight if you're concerned about going at night, you know, walk with friends. I have friends in the city who grow herbs in their windowsill because they have no access to land. You know, no backyard to grow a vegetable garden.
but they have like little wooden boxes in their windows where they can grow their kitchen herbs. Even that can be so beautiful for children, for any of us just to get our hands on the earth and watch the beauty of plants growing. So gardening and walks and taking this time even in the city at night, you can look at the night sky, you know, there's a lot of light pollution, but you can still see the moon and you can still see the clouds. And I think everything we can do.
Reese Brown (14:25.832)
at night you can look at the night sky you know there's a lot of light
Osprey Orielle Lake (14:34.574)
to remember that we can't live without nature and that we need to bring nature into our daily life. It will help guide us in big, beautiful, powerful ways.
Reese Brown (14:41.672)
I completely agree and I absolutely relate to the struggle that you're kind of discussing with this forgetting or lack of remembering with, you know, the fundamental -ness that is all around us and fundamentally who we are as human beings, what we are as human beings is natural, is
in accordance with the natural flow of nature. And like you said, we're one small piece of this beautiful web. And I think that the suggestions for helping us to remember kind of having that herb garden or going on walks are almost a really beautiful way to like tie a string around your finger metaphorically as a reminder to tap back into that feeling.
What do you think the biggest difficulty is that we face with forgetting? I know you talk in your book a lot about socioeconomic structures and different cultural systems that have come to develop that prevent us from engaging with the earth and each other in as wholehearted a way as possible, but what would you characterize that as?
Osprey Orielle Lake (16:07.406)
Well, I think that we are in a very intense and amplified moment in our human story, speaking of stories and our reality. I mean, when we look at the climate crisis, when we look at environmental degradation, when we look at the ongoing onslaught of Indigenous peoples and the stealing of their lands and the way of the assault,
Reese Brown (16:46.184)
Mm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (16:48.76)
bit in my book and in the work that we do, we're looking at, you know, these, how did we arrive at these ideas of separation? How did we arrive at these ideas of hierarchy? As an example, you know, a lot of world religions, and I'm not against world religions, and I'm not a religious expert has nothing to do with that. I'm talking about belief systems that we've all grown up in, that really perpetuate this idea of patriarchy.
Reese Brown (17:10.216)
Mm -hmm. Sure.
Osprey Orielle Lake (17:17.574)
colonization, racism, and endless economic systems like capitalism, which are extractive economies that you can take from the earth and never give back. There's no reciprocal relationship and we can't just keep taking from the earth. But how do we get this idea that it was okay to see nature as our slave in essence, as you could just keep taking from the mother without giving back? Where did that come from? Or...
Reese Brown (17:42.12)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (17:44.454)
the idea that women are less than men or that we can't have gender diverse people so that there's not a place for them. Like that isn't at the top of the hierarchy chain and just these ideas of hierarchy themselves and where do they come from. And so this is what I'm really interested in is being able to name these things, learn about them, understanding their historical frameworks because it's very hard to heal something that we can't name.
Reese Brown (17:45.224)
Yeah, that's it.
Reese Brown (18:01.8)
This is what I'm really interested in is being able to name these things, learn about them, understanding their historical framework. It's very hard to feel something that we can't name or diagnose.
Osprey Orielle Lake (18:14.31)
or diagnosis, so if you go to the doctor and you're not feeling well, the first thing they do is find out what is going on because they can't just start treating you haphazardly. So this is sort of how I'm looking at the problem that you offered in your question is how do we get at root causes of the climate crisis? How do we get through causes of gender inequality? How do we get at the root causes of colonization and violence and racism? How do we look at these things? And so part of, you know, I mean,
Reese Brown (18:20.328)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (18:44.166)
worldview is a vast topic. You can only pick up some of the threads. I'm looking at, you know, how we humanity developed these ideas of patriarchy and hierarchy. So, you know, women, we have men above women, or humans are above nature, or white people are more important than everyone else. Humans are here to fulfill their purpose at the cost of everyone else.
endless economic growth models. We need to be in a system where we're constantly materially growing because there's other ways of growing but Kaplan was based on endless material growth. How did we develop this? The idea of separation from nature, the idea of white supremacy, all of these things are what I'm talking about and how do we look at them so we can name them and then begin to transform them? Once we can name them, we can begin to understand them inside of ourselves.
Reese Brown (19:15.816)
Yes.
Osprey Orielle Lake (19:39.846)
and begin to question ourselves and our assumptions and catch ourselves in the work that we need to do to decolonize ourselves, not be racist, not be perpetuating patriarchy so that we can lift up the earth and we can lift up all peoples. But it really begins inside of us, but then it's enacted and embodied in all the things and all the activities we do. And so for me, it's a lot about looking at the root causes and where these systems come from.
Reese Brown (19:54.024)
and so for me it's a lot about looking at the root cause.
Osprey Orielle Lake (20:08.006)
so that we can recognize them and transform them.
Reese Brown (20:10.664)
Mm -hmm. I think that really makes so much sense to me. And with root cause analysis, it really helps to get at the underpinning of the why, right? As opposed to just layering another like symptom solution on top and it's very like slap a bandaid on it mentality. Have you identified something that really does feel like?
a root cause because I think it's at least for me, I don't want to discuss anyone else's reaction to this book. But in reading this book, I feel as though it's impossible to separate all of these concepts from one another are like you were just discussing a relationship to the earth, to the land, to femininity, to divine womanhood, to patriarchy and how that has evolved and capitalism and these different structures that have come about.
to impose a hierarchy that allows us to quote unquote win, even though what is winning? What does that look like? When I would argue that this book discusses how true success would be in harmony and reciprocity and not one thing prevailing over another, but in us all.
cohabitating together. Yes, so have you identified something that feels like a root cause for all of these interconnected pieces? And that's a very weighty question. And if that is, you know, I think even if you have a good answer for me right now, I would also imagine that that work and evolution of that answer will continue to happen.
Osprey Orielle Lake (22:03.494)
Absolutely. And I think you said it very well. I mean, I don't think that it's one thing. I think it's an ecosystem of ideas and how they feed off of one another. So if you kind of like tug on patriarchy, you're going to sort of tug on colonization and you're going to end up, you know, looking at capitalism as a natural outcome of this idea of dominion over the earth and dominion over others.
Reese Brown (22:10.44)
Mm.
Reese Brown (22:20.424)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (22:32.87)
which is also going to lead you to white supremacy because someone still has to do all the labor and all of that harmful activity of extracting fossil fuels or, you know, different minerals that are needed for the transition to renewable energy or things that are needed around water issues. They're all going to go back to this extractive economy, which only comes about, could only come about if humans believed they had dominion over nature and were more important than nature.
Reese Brown (22:54.376)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (23:02.278)
Because if you just to kind of flip it another way, when you look at indigenous peoples, just as an example, 80 % of all the biodiversity left on earth is in the lands and hands that are stewarded by indigenous peoples. And there's a reason for that, which is their worldview and their ethics and understanding of being part of the web of life. And so we can see there's other ways of knowing and other ways of organizing society.
and looking at our own ancestors when they were connected to the land, you know, wherever we're from and understanding, you know, our own roots in a positive sense of going back not just to like analyzing root causes of problems, but also going back our own roots of our own traditions that were connected to the land in, you know, pre -colonized, pre -patriarchal times. We can see a lot of egalitarian societies, an uplifting of the mother goddess, and a whole different way of viewing
Reese Brown (23:42.856)
Right?
Osprey Orielle Lake (23:59.494)
the land and how do we have a reciprocal relationship with when we take from the earth, how do we give back and what are planetary boundaries? What is an economy that respects planetary boundaries? What is an economy that respects the natural laws of the earth? What are codes of conduct of how we live and how much we consume that respect a healthy ecosystem? And so, yeah, I think it's a lot about also understanding
Reese Brown (24:04.712)
Thank you.
Reese Brown (24:11.464)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (24:29.67)
you know, that there's an ecosystem of causes that got us into this crisis. But when you start looking at them, you realize you can't sort of just look at one without the others. But I do think sort of a big part of it started with patriarchy. I wouldn't just like say only, but I think when I look at it, I see patriarchy being, you know, at the apex because it that's a very big separation of female and male power that.
Reese Brown (24:38.024)
Right.
Reese Brown (24:44.648)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (24:58.118)
then triggers other hierarchies. So, and that goes back long, long ago. And in my book, as you saw, I go through different histories of the evolution of the patriarchy and the rise of the patriarchy. So there's also that they're all connected, but patriarchy, I think is really core to it as well.
Reese Brown (24:58.536)
then triggers other pyro.
Reese Brown (25:09.192)
Yes.
Reese Brown (25:14.472)
Absolutely. One thing that I found so neat, like that's not an adequate adjective to describe this, but it's the one that came to me, but really fascinating about the way that you discussed the evolution of patriarchy and the rise of it was in your language usage around it. And I want to pull,
something up from the book specifically, because I really found it so useful. And it was really about our connection to language and our language usage. But that when we're discussing the distinction between a matriarchal society and a patriarchal society,
A really important distinction that you draw is that a matriarchal society does not entail that women are best above better. And yet a patriarchal society does imply that men are best above better in charge, in power. Matriarchal society relies on this beautiful interplay between people and between us and the earth, the land.
And that's something I've been thinking a lot about in terms of my own journey as a feminist and in trying to have conversations with people about feminism is that language of feminist. A lot of people have a misunderstanding around it being, well, we can't flip back to the wrong, like over correct, I suppose, and say that women are inherently better than men. I'm like the root definition of feminism is equality and equity.
and a partnership of things as opposed to continuing a hierarchical way of thinking. And just reading that little section really switched something in my brain about it is impossible to describe to someone the difference in feminism or matriarchy and patriarchy.
Reese Brown (27:38.44)
from a framework of hierarchy because it is inherently unhierarchical. So I don't know if there's a good question in there, but I would love to hear your thoughts on this kind of concept between removing hierarchy from the way that we do things and a shift in that mindset.
Osprey Orielle Lake (28:01.766)
Hmm. Very, very important distinction to make. And again, it's funny because we're we, you know, we're humans, we make up these words, and then we give meaning to them. But I completely agree with what you said, because in context to most humans understanding of patriarchy and matriarchy, we have developed a patriarchy, which is all the things that you said, you know, men above women and better and in power.
Reese Brown (28:10.792)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (28:31.27)
and quite frankly, white men specifically, but there's patriarchy in almost every stretch of the world now, not all, but a lot. And yes, this idea of matriarchy is pulling upon this idea of egalitarian societies. And so I really love the work of Maria Gumbutas and Rhianne Eisler, they're two scholars.
Reese Brown (28:49.192)
Mm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (28:56.934)
that I really love and Rhianne Isler is a wonderful friend and mentor of mine. And both of them, Maria Gamboutis did a lot of work, she has since passed, but did a lot of work around, you know, she's an archeologist, a linguist. And so, you know, she did a lot of this research to surface the language of the goddess and the history of the goddess and showing all over particularly,
old Europe. I mean, it's all over the world, but you know, her area and scope of work was in old Europe and very exciting work, you know, that really brought a lot of strength to the feminist movement to reclaim our knowledge of the sacred goddess, the sacred feminine and the role of women in society and showing, you know, not only that the goddess was revered equal to the gods,
Reese Brown (29:35.752)
our knowledge of the sacred goddess, the sacred feminine, and the rule of the women's society. It's showing not only that the goddesses were here, equal to the gods, but also that women were in leadership roles. And so there's a lot of archeological evidence and findings for this, which is really exciting. And just to give an image so it's not so abstract.
Osprey Orielle Lake (29:48.838)
but also that women were in leadership roles. And so there's a lot of archeological evidence and findings for this, which is really, really exciting. And just to give an image, so it's not so abstract, there's this one story telling book that I really love, because I was researching my own ancestries in old Europe about, in what is now Ukraine, this circle of clay women that were found in a sacred vessel, and they're all sitting in a circle.
in very dignified chairs, some of them that are like have, you know, are animal creatures and each of them sitting in council together as clearly a women's circle in council as leaders. And just to be able to touch our ancestry in that way, to be inspired and in remembrance of who we are and where we come from as women, I think is really powerful. And for men as well. You know, I think it's not about putting men down, but about putting...
Reese Brown (30:24.52)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (30:41.704)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (30:44.87)
men down but about lifting women up. And, you know, this is what we're looking at when we talk about matriarchy is an egalitarian society. And within that context, also the Mother Earth, you know, there's a deep relationship between casting down the Mother Goddess, casting down the Mother Earth, and what that did to women, it's completely connected. And those two things can't be separated. And so everyone is at a loss and has been hurt, but that
Reese Brown (31:06.088)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (31:13.926)
by the transition of human societies all over the earth, moving from egalitarian matriarchal, matrilineal societies to this idea of dominion over women, dominion over the land, dominion of the earth, and on it goes. And so this is what we're calling upon when we say matriarchy, is we're talking about how do we live in relationship with each other and the land in a way that is harmonious. And this is what we're calling.
Reese Brown (31:39.816)
in a way that's not really happening. It's funny, there's a lot of different ways people can...
Osprey Orielle Lake (31:43.718)
I mean, it's funny, there's a lot of different ways people talk about this, but I love the saying, I've heard it from indigenous people in the global South, but in different ways too, that the future is ancestral. The future is ancestral. And it's, again, pulling from all this.
Reese Brown (31:59.944)
Oh, I think I just lost you. That could be my... Oh, I'm so sorry. I think we just lost connection for a moment. Let's just start. You are about to share the saying that you've heard across the global South. That's right where I lost you.
Osprey Orielle Lake (32:03.846)
Oops.
Osprey Orielle Lake (32:13.862)
Okay, and I'm going to get something while we're taking a second break because there's something in the language I wanted to share with you, but I have to read it because I can't remember it by hand. Since we're taking it, you're going to have to edit there anyway, so I'll grab it. Okay, so something about language we can get back to. Okay, so I'll start with the saying. Okay, so there's a saying that I really love that I learned from Indigenous peoples in the Global South.
Reese Brown (32:18.952)
Oh, absolutely.
Reese Brown (32:25.832)
Yes, absolutely.
Yes, totally.
Reese Brown (32:36.168)
Yes, yes ma 'am.
Osprey Orielle Lake (32:43.526)
but I think it also is being expressed in different ways by different people about the future is ancestral. The future is ancestral. And I really love that because we do need to pull from the deep roots of our ancestors and all that knowledge. Again, I keep using these terms pre -patriarchal and pre -colonized times because it's so important that we know where we come from and this vast knowledge.
Reese Brown (32:51.08)
ancestral.
Osprey Orielle Lake (33:11.846)
that we still carry in our bones, if you will. And so this is what we mean about this matriarchal world and bringing back the matriarchy, which means bringing back the balance. As you said, it's not about women now having dominion over men, no. And also for men, I would like to say that men have suffered under patriarchy as well at a spiritual and emotional level. And...
Reese Brown (33:15.688)
Absolutely.
Osprey Orielle Lake (33:41.19)
it has caused a lot of insanity and mental illness and suffering for men as well. I'm mostly focused on women because we must stand with those who are being marginalized and hurt. But there's so much healing for everyone within the context of this transition that we must call forward. We must summon it and we must create it because we are in an emergency in many ways, in what many scholars are calling a polycrisis right now.
ecologically, economically, socially. And so we need a very different system. And this is what I'm really aiming at in my book and in the work that I do is how do we generate this new world that we all know is possible, that is egalitarian and beautiful, that will be so much more beautiful and happy for all of us. But we have to really work to get there. You know, it's a struggle.
Reese Brown (34:32.936)
rate.
Osprey Orielle Lake (34:37.414)
So this is also the aim of a lot of the work that we do at WeCan. We do a lot of projects like on reforestation and food sovereignty and rights of nature, many things that start demonstrating this way forward and we need to keep building it, seeing it, envisioning it, because I think it's so important that we demonstrate it and create ways for people to visualize it and to experience it and to see it in action. So that's not just conceptual, but something that we see people really doing and embodying and experiencing.
Reese Brown (35:02.92)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (35:07.464)
Absolutely. And I think that is even beautiful and how it brings it back into this physical, right? And are tied to the land and this beautiful embodiment and connection there. One thing as you were talking about this that kept kind of coming up in my mind is back in my high school world history class, one thing that just kept coming up over and over again when economy and society really started to, whew.
take off was settled agriculture. And why that allowed us to really grow and expand as a society was because we were able to create a surplus of food, of resources, of anything that could possibly be needed. It was surplus. And even now, in talking about this, that language around being able to create a surplus is rooted in, like you're discussing,
taking from the land without giving back, creating more than we need without replenishing. And I think there's absolutely a way to do this where, you know, we can work reciprocally and in harmony with these things around us to be able to have settled agriculture and be able to expand and grow as human beings in a way that's also beneficial for our environment that.
will then in turn be beneficial for us. It has to be symbiotic, right? In order for the growth of anything living. One thing that I also want, deeply, deeply wanna make sure that we discuss and since we're kind of talking about patriarchy and pulling on all of these different strings, taking us back, is your discussion of the witch hunt that happens and how...
The witch hunt really is at this crucial intersection of so many different things occurring, like right at the beginning of settling the United States and in this crucial time of establishing religion and new economic systems and structures here. Why do you think that is that this vast attack on women that...
Reese Brown (37:31.72)
I would argue are women who are just more connected to spirit, to source, and utilize that knowledge of their ancestors that it's deemed witchhood and then witchhood is deemed as demonic or evil or bad or any other synonym there.
Osprey Orielle Lake (37:53.414)
So in the book, I'm kind of taking us like on a historical journey. So people, again, are able to name the causes of how we got here because that gives us power to dismantle and transform them. So I wanted to do a dive into the witch hunt so people could see that there really were part of this arc of history and how the patriarchy, again, seeing women as less than men,
Reese Brown (37:57.928)
Mm -hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (38:23.526)
you know, had happened for thousands of years already and really set the stage for the witch hunts to happen. And it would take me a long time to put all the pieces together here. I'm just gonna do a few little pieces, but I just really want listeners to know like, no, there's a lot more than what I'm about to say. But the little window that I'll share right now is that, you know, when we see the desire,
Reese Brown (38:40.136)
Perfect.
Reese Brown (38:43.624)
Absolutely.
Osprey Orielle Lake (38:52.902)
for colonization. We had feudalism in Europe at the time and the control of the wealthy elite, which is part of, you know, which also set the stage for capitalism. But this extractive economy has been going on for a long time, even older, that's very connected to patriarchy. And so one of the ways in which the patriarch could continue to
take power and hold on to power and grow power is to go after the women who were connected to the earth, had all their herbal remedies, had tremendous power. So it's a lot about a power struggle and one of the ways that the church and corporations, you know, not by that name, but people creating economies that are the seeds for capitalism corporations, um,
they had to develop a way to control people and to control the land. And one of the ways that was done is through the witch hunts and taking powerful women and demonizing women so that these world religions that are based on patriarchy could rise. And so there needed to be a reason that the women should not be honored and that the divine feminine should not be honored and that there were no more priestesses or.
Reese Brown (40:09.384)
Mmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (40:20.294)
women in divine holy roles. And so we see, you know, the witch hunts coming into this as a way of gaining more power for the elite. And again, it's so much more than that, but I'll just leave it at that. So it's part of the story of Patriarch. It's part of the story of colonization. It's part of the story of this dominion over others narrative that unfortunately has developed to such a dangerous.
Reese Brown (40:33.864)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (40:45.864)
Mm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (40:49.83)
extreme degree. And we see this, you know, just like get it right here to here in the United States with all the struggles to take away women's autonomy that we're back at fighting over abortion rights again. So it's all one big story that keeps manifesting itself in different ways. It's a struggle that goes on. I mean, we think about the witch hunts in the past, which they are, but the ramifications, the implications, the imprint in modern society is deeply here, which is why
Reese Brown (40:51.4)
Right? Absolutely.
Reese Brown (41:01.672)
Mm -hmm.
Reese Brown (41:17.928)
Yes.
Osprey Orielle Lake (41:19.75)
I wanted to mention it. And like I said, it's so big, I could go on and on and how it's impacted every woman I know, even though they don't even know about the witch hunts, there's certain ways that women have fears or disassociations or concerns about being close with other women that are still carried on from our memory as women that are in our bodies and even subtly carried on from mother to mother to mother to mother.
Reese Brown (41:28.424)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (41:48.038)
Children to children to children to children. And so Yeah, it's something that we can't leave out so that You know, can you edit this and blowing it? Sorry? System I'm gonna back up so we see this story being passed on from mother to daughter mother to daughter mother to daughter and it's still in our bodies and
Reese Brown (41:58.696)
Yeah, no, absolutely, but you are absolutely not blowing it at all, but I can absolutely make a little edit.
Osprey Orielle Lake (42:16.774)
So it's so important to be able to name it because, you know, when you name something, it changes it. It disempowers it. It can empower something or disempower it, but it gives us a way to hold onto it and not be overcome by something or overwhelmed when we can name it and surface it and discuss it. And so I think that's part of why it's important to include it in the story.
Reese Brown (42:22.088)
Mm -hmm.
Reese Brown (42:38.184)
Totally. Man, that just feels so, well, now I'm even like my exclamation there being man, right? It's like you really start to break down all of these interweavings of language and how we, not to be too heavy handed, but make meaning out of linguistics and our ancestry and history. And it's so true, I absolutely relate to that, that.
the history of witches in the witch hunt has been extremely impactful for me and my identity as a woman. And as, you know, I'm like, I got my crystals sitting here and the one around my neck and being someone who even in our modern day where spiritualism and mysticism and even the occult is much more.
wrapped up in curiosity as opposed to being demonized, there are still groups and people that I confront that do not approve and do not want to move forward with engaging with me because of this. And I think we absolutely do feel those ripples and whether that's generational trauma or ancestral trauma or anything that to take it back to the science like you brought up earlier and is beautifully interwoven in your book, it is genetically coded and that that...
scientific piece that is literally in our bones, but also in the inner workings of the female or woman spirit that is passed on as well from mother to daughters. I think talking about it is so important and one of the reasons why I absolutely love this book. There's two things that I'm really curious about, but I'm going to start with one because I don't want to complicate this question too much. But...
We talk, you were just talking a lot about the removal of women from a place of holiness, a place of divinity, a place of priesthood and leadership within the church. And there's a section where you talk about a bunch of different goddesses and how learning the names of different goddesses is really part of your personal awakening. And it's just so beautiful and empowering and to see which ones.
Reese Brown (45:02.152)
you resonate with on any given day or any given moment. And it's to know that that goddess could be speaking through you or sitting next to you or helping you in any moment. It's just, it was such a powerful section for me. And I'm probably going to butcher the pronunciation. So please correct me. In Edwana describes the goddess as a vicious dragon who also howls like a raging storm.
imagery that would have been seen as decidedly negative for female deities in later times, but she is life giver, healer, warrioress, and divine. And in this section, that was just so beautiful for me to think about something that is just power and yet that is thought of as oftentimes negative for a lot of women.
I want to ask you about female rage and female anger and womanly rage and the importance of yes, taking back this place of femininity that is holy and is quote unquote light, but also allowing women to embrace the dark as well that we can.
shed some of this perfectionism that we feel we must have in order to kind of fight and scrap and scrape to get back any ounce of leadership that we don't have to be perfect and all of those things in order to still be worthy of this equality and egalitarian society. So I would love to hear your thoughts about that concept and women being able to embrace anger.
as well.
Osprey Orielle Lake (46:55.75)
Hmm. Yeah, no, it's so beautiful that you're wrestling with these things and I talked to a lot of women of all ages who wrestle with these things and how we represent ourselves as human beings as fully present human beings in women's bodies or I will also add gender diverse leaders because there's so many gender diverse friends that you know struggle with these same issues.
Reese Brown (47:22.184)
Absolutely.
Osprey Orielle Lake (47:24.038)
in the hierarchies that we're talking about. And one of the things that is so beautiful, and you knit it together very well with the beauty and power of reclaiming the goddesses and hearing their names, as I mentioned in the book, and how that impacted me as a young woman, because I didn't have those role models. And it's not that there haven't been powerful women, there have been. I mean, we stand on the shoulders of women who fought for the right to vote. And on and on it goes. Women,
Indigenous, Black, Brown, White women all together fighting in their different struggles. And so we have the actual women humans who have done this amazing work whose stories are often not told and have been silenced out of history. So a lot of them have been lost and we need to keep writing women back into history. And it's also very special to hear the names of the goddesses who also have been erased. We have mostly these...
one male god figures who are not connected to the trees, into the land, and anything physical. It's just this floating god somewhere that's omnipresent, which is also part of the disconnection narrative, is coming from that concept of this disembodied deity god. And so that's also very tied together, which is a whole other conversation. But coming back to your question, so hearing the name of these goddesses,
Reese Brown (48:42.28)
Mmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (48:52.23)
and the fact that they take on many forms is very essential for how we can express ourselves and what is feminine energy or what is the divine feminine. And for me, you know, it's like the divine masculine and the divine feminine are always intertwining and dancing together. I think, you know, putting these sort of attributes just in one category really doesn't work that way. It just gets expressed differently. So,
We're all humans. We all have love, men and women. We all have rage. We all have love. We all have compassion. We all have, you know, embarrassments. We all have fear. We all have intellectual prowess. We all have creativity. So, you know, we're humans. We have these things, but it does get expressed differently in how we are in our bodies. Absolutely. In the cultural...
social and physical attributes of that are real. But with these goddesses, it's so wondrous to see, you know, their different aspects that they can be fierce. You know, like a lot of people want to in the conditioned patriarchal world, women are gentle and women are quiet and women are nurturing and women do all the nice things. Okay, just to put it simply. And that's all true. We're all those amazing, generous, caring,
Reese Brown (50:15.496)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (50:19.174)
giving humans and that's not all who we are. And that's sort of what I hear in your question of the course. We have rage, we have, you know, fiery sexuality, we have excitement, we are, you know, brilliant, we are mentally savvy, we are strategists, we're a lot of things. But the ones that get sort of mostly denigrated are that our fierceness, our rage, anything that
stirs up a confrontation is particularly attacked. And so, yes, we need to be strong and support each other and stand in solidarity when any one of our sisters stands up firmly and confirm that and not say she's being bossy or, you know, whatever, you know, is being said negatively because a woman decides to express herself in a powerful way. And we need to really change that.
on a daily basis and encouraging ourselves and each other to realize this is healthy. This is part of being, you know, a woman is every aspect of who we are needs to be honored and respected and in fact needed. I would go so far as to say that it is a social and political need. We are missing women's rage. We are missing women's fierceness in the political sphere, in the social sphere. It's what's missing. We need.
Reese Brown (51:19.048)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (51:46.182)
you know, a lot of us, which, you know, we do what we can standing up to these men in power and getting things straightened out. And it's going to be women who lead the way. And so I spent a lot of my book to showing how women are leading the way, because, you know, when the system's out of balance, one of the key reasons it's out of balance is that things have been left out. And you need to add them back in for balance. So we need women and their fierceness and their brilliance and their passion back in the story.
Reese Brown (52:06.312)
Hmm.
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (52:16.102)
We need indigenous people, Black and Brown women who've been marginalized and completely attacked and violated back into the story. We need Mother Earth back in the story. This is what's going to heal us right now and bring meaning and sanity to a very insane time. Let's face it, things are crazy. I don't know what else to say. Things are so out of balance and so harmful right now. We're in such a dangerous moment.
Reese Brown (52:39.368)
Yes.
Osprey Orielle Lake (52:45.51)
for humanity. Yet there's so much hope in who we are and what we can do. I mean, I could tell you so many stories about the work we do with women that blows my mind the successes that they're having. But we have to remember we are in a time which we have to stand up to the powers that be and or we won't be able to express all of the way we want the world to be and the solutions that we have. And the last thing I just want to say,
Reese Brown (53:04.2)
Right.
Osprey Orielle Lake (53:14.566)
while we touch on the goddesses is, the goddess that you're referring to is Inanna. That was what the poem was about, the goddess Inanna. And I wanted just to mention her because not only is she all the things which has been paragraphs writing about, so I won't say them here, but the one point that is relevant to this moment is that she also is Venus, the morning star and the evening star.
Reese Brown (53:41.768)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (53:43.814)
And so there's ways that she's described about how she goes to the underworld and does all of this work and then comes back up to the surface. Well, it's because, you know, when we can see Venus and then she goes away at night. And one of the things that's also beautiful to realize about these goddesses is that they are the natural systems. It's really important to make that connection that she's all the things that you describe, but she's also right there in the sky. And that also connects us to the land. And these goddesses,
Reese Brown (54:01.128)
Mm -hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (54:13.862)
are the land. They're not separate. They're not the omnipresent, invisible God who's disembodied. They're spiritual, ethereal, but also grounded in the rivers, the mountains, the sky, the cosmology.
Reese Brown (54:15.688)
Mm. Right.
Reese Brown (54:30.568)
Yeah, grounded both literally and metaphorically, right? That's so beautiful. And I love, I just love this conversation. This is like so energizing to me and exciting. And I just am fascinated and captivated by everything that you are sharing. So thank you. To continue on this same,
track. I think another piece of this section about the goddesses that I found so powerful was the power of names. And even in you just sharing, Anana is also Venus and how there is this shared name that slightly, you know, depending on who you're talking to and how we're conversing, those two names carry very different histories and myth and cosmologies with them and belief systems and thinking about ancient Greece versus
Indigenous people or different belief systems absolutely colors the way we think about these goddesses. A big thing that is returned to in your book that, of course, I'm very interested in as someone who's interested in how we make meaning is language. And chapter 13 is worldviews conjured by words. And I think the way we use words is so important. It is we are both
trapped and empowered by our use of language. It is the mode we are forced and privileged to comport ourselves within. And the way we name things is so important, both within these goddesses, but also like you were talking about earlier, when you name something, you are allowed to sect it, understand it. It gives, it both can empower and take away power when...
it is named when it is this entity that we can actually talk about and to speak to my own experience with that when I received a mental health diagnosis, it absolutely empowered me to understand and research, oh, this is why I feel the way I do. These are the things I can do to move forward and learn about myself and the things that I need. And that naming of the thing was just so powerful.
Reese Brown (56:49.576)
but also changed the way that I conceptualized of myself and the way I tell the story of who Reese is and who I want Reese to be.
linguistics and language, these names of these goddesses, I think, of course, we see language change throughout time. And of course, our socioeconomic systems change language. How do you see language kind of being a part of this whole process and these interconnected systems and
Yes, just this beautiful conversation we're happening. Where does the piece of language come into play?
Osprey Orielle Lake (57:29.67)
Hmm. Thank you for that articulation. Yes, I mean, I you know, I really was excited about that chapter. I really enjoyed writing it. It was really beautiful to look up, you know, the roots of certain words and to think about language and why I included is because of course we look at worldview and changing our worldviews to be life enhancing and life honoring.
It brings up, well, how did our language not become that? And I think our language reflects our worldviews. So if we're going to change our worldviews, it's really important that we also look at our language and the way that we talk about things. So here's an example we can just wrap our hands around is when we talk about our rivers, our forests, most often we talk about them as resources. And so that immediately puts us in a mercantile mind.
extractive economy mind because we're not even naming the name of the river. It suddenly doesn't have a name. It's not Mississippi River. It's not the Longanui River. It's not any river we know by name. Beautiful names that these rivers have and the living waters of life. We can't live without water or just naming, you know, board feet. In essence, we talk about the forest, its resources. How many board feet resources is that in that Redwood forest?
Reese Brown (58:48.104)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (58:59.558)
or that fir forest. And this reductionism to the word resources, I find really detrimental. And so if we talked about the actual name of the river, the names of the trees as living relatives, as we were talking about earlier about how do we regenerate an animate cosmology where everything is alive, which it is, it's different when we're in relationship to the earth and we're seeing the mountains and the rivers and the animals and the plants as living relatives.
which they are, we are relatives. It's very different about how we would approach those living relatives if we needed something. And we wouldn't be decimating them. We'd be trying to care for their, the tree family, the tree people, the river people, the river story. We would be in it all together, seeing how we survive, how they thrive. And so language has everything to do with how we view the world and our place within the world.
And I just wanted to give one example of something I was sharing that I went in my research around, you know, ways also that language connects us to the earth. And I give several examples about how in many older languages and certainly in indigenous cultures today, a lot of the names of the months reflect either what's happening with the earth or our relationships as humans to the earth.
at that time. And so even how our language can tie us and knit us into our ecosystem. So I was visiting a friend in the Czech Republic and he was sharing with me some of the old Czechish language. And he was telling me that January is called Leden, which means ice and February, or is hibernation or ice lowers and March is Bretzen, the birch or sap and April is Dubin the oak.
And May is kvetan, the blossoms or flowers. And I won't go on, but you get the idea that you really hear, you're talking about the month, but you're immediately tied into the land and the season. Whereas now we see like January, February, March. And of course, I know intellectually that they're connected back to Greek gods or goddesses, but even January, I don't know what that means. You know, it's just, it's a word. And so it's also disembodied. And...
Reese Brown (01:01:02.408)
Mmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:01:25.318)
So just even that, like imagining having every time you say what month you're in, boom, you're connected to the land. And so this is what I'm talking about with language, like how we can work to develop an Earth -loving language again and an Earth -connected language, I think, is part of the transformation we're looking at in the world that we want to bring into being.
Reese Brown (01:01:34.088)
Right.
Reese Brown (01:01:49.672)
Absolutely. And I, yes, I just absolutely agree. And I think that what you said there at the end is absolutely perfect. Like intellectually, we can know these things, but to live them, to embody them in how we go, comport ourselves as human beings is so important for not just that mental reminder, but that physical bone deep reminder of where we are.
what we're doing, the part that we have to play, the small role that we have to play in all of these inner workings. I have one more question from the book before we dive into, I have two closing questions that I always like to ask everyone, but this will be my last one before we hop into the ending of the podcast. In the very beginning of your book on the fourth page, you ask a question.
And I kind of just want to bring that question back up because I just found it so powerful and it ties into this idea of can we undo the doing? And so you say, I ask how humanity and I personally can live responsibly and vibrantly in this perilous, uncertain moment and in this quest, how can we restore all that we can of life -sustaining ecosystems?
while becoming good ancestors for future generations, here, now, in the liminal time of the Anthropocene.
What a powerful question that I think we should all be asking of ourselves. But have you found anything that feels like an approximation of an answer to that question or something that really cracked open that question for you or something that may be inspired that beautiful articulation of that question?
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:03:50.694)
Oh, it's so wonderful you brought that up. So, you know, it's in the opening chapter of the book, as you stated, and, you know, it's the theme of the questioning throughout the whole book. So, you know, I took many pages to try to get at that. So I just sort of give like a little feeling, I think, because, you know, I tried to answer that or address, I don't even know if you answer a question like that, you sort of tug at it and find different rivulets that might.
lead to a river of understanding within that.
Reese Brown (01:04:23.56)
Totally.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:04:27.718)
I think what I'm called to say right now is something that I was contemplating the other day about just thinking like, what is a core thing that I've thought about all my life that is the most, it might seem super oversimplistic, but I know that I wake up sometimes, I understand I live a privileged life. It's not like I have this, I'm wealthy and privileged in what people might think in terms of, you know,
someone who's always had money and has always cared for, but the privilege of being a white person living in North America is a big deal. So I wanted to just name that because it's really important to always remember where we're coming from and how we arrive at our ideas and where we stand. But this, I think something that's driven me even since my childhood is the fact that we are
here on earth and living in this beauty of nature and the.
astonishing awe and wonder of all the things we've been talking about from the rivers and trees and the birds and the animals and just
If you start looking at all the flowers on the earth and all their colors, all the butterflies and all the different types of butterflies they are, all the foods that we eat, the variety, the magnificence, the thousand fold species that are here, the complexity of them, their behaviors, all the different ways from the swimmers to the fliers to the crawlers. It's incredible. The fact that we look up at the stars at night that were on this planet.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:06:15.046)
All of these things that in some ways I think we've taken for granted. The fact that we dream at night as humans, just the fact that we talk about our dreams, where do they come from? The fact that we love, that we have relationship, that we're all different. I am continually baffled that we're destroying this. If I was going to say it in just one short sentence, like when I think about all that we've been given, all that this existence is,
all the magnificence that you can't even describe. It would crush you if you felt it all in one moment. The beauty would crush you. That what we're doing here overall is destructive. Not everyone, not en masse. There's lots of people who are trying to create beauty, but like our overall impact so far is pollution and extractive and harming others. That so unsettles me.
Reese Brown (01:06:51.88)
Mm -hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:07:12.55)
And you know, if you give me a few more minutes, I'll start crying. So I'll stop there. But it really is a core question.
that can't be answered necessarily, but that drives me.
Reese Brown (01:07:28.616)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what a beautiful driving force and driving question. One of my favorite quotes that I think is very in alignment with a lot of what you discuss in this book and have been discussing throughout our conversation is from Martin Luther King Jr. And he asks, he says, the most important question, the most urgent question we must ask is,
What are we doing for other people? And I think when we think about what are we doing for other people, that is also tied up in your articulation of being good ancestors for future generations. How are we being good for other people to come after us, for the people we interact with on a daily basis, for the people that are not white that do not live this dimension of a privileged life, right?
So I think that that is extremely powerful and extremely necessary to talk about. And even just personally, I find your ethos on social justice and climate justice really important because feminism should be inclusive of all these things, should be inclusive of gender diversity and non -heteronormativity and gender conformity. It should be.
this place of acceptance and.
Harmony, this word that we keep coming back to throughout our conversation. So I just so appreciate that. And I think in not being able to answer these questions, we at least get some really beautiful conversations that hopefully, like you said, can kind of tease out some of these rivers of knowledge or tap into some of these more ancient and ancestral knowledge fountains that are still out there and all around us.
Reese Brown (01:09:30.6)
to ask my first of my final two closing questions. This one is just in light of our conversation of everything we've discussed. Is there anything you would like to return to? Anything you feel called to clarify, clear up, add to, or bring up that we didn't touch on that you're like, I would be absolutely remiss if I did not throw this out there during this conversation. This is space for if there's anything.
including if you want to plug your beautiful book. All of your information will be in the show notes and the video description wherever you are listening to this podcast or watching this podcast. You'll be able to purchase the stories in our bones down below. The link will be there and absolutely explore more of Osprey's beautiful work. But yes, I will hand the floor over to you.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:10:24.39)
So it's such a great modeling of feminism to ask that question, by the way, you know, just to create inclusivity. There's so much more to say, I'm sure I left so much out. So all I can say is read the book. If you feel moved, no pressure, just like that's where we can go into a deeper dive. But there's one thing I want to just mention since you brought it up as we were talking earlier, where I too have learned about the, you know, the rise of sedentary people and
Reese Brown (01:10:43.496)
Mm -hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:10:53.638)
agriculture and creating ways to have surplus and how that leads to harms and all the things that we discuss. The one thing I did want to say is, again, there's a truth to it and an untruth in the sense that I think we could also look at analyzing and critiquing some of these analyses because we do see a lot of indigenous people who have grown their food and that did not happen to them.
Reese Brown (01:11:03.016)
Mm.
Reese Brown (01:11:22.76)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:11:23.686)
So let's remember that people have lived in the Amazon rainforest and indigenous communities around the world have grown food and collected seeds forever. But they didn't turn into colonizers and capitalists. So again, that's a whole hour conversation. But I just want to put a little flag. People can kind of sit with that. I've had to sit with it and think, hmm, that's really interesting. So I just leave it at that, because I think it's important.
Reese Brown (01:11:37.864)
Hmm.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:11:50.63)
that we realize again, worldviews and our relationship to each other in the land impacts anything that we do. So I'll just leave it at that.
Reese Brown (01:11:56.2)
Hmm.
Absolutely. Thank you for noting that and kind of putting a little pin there. And I think you also, yes, thank you for noting that this is of course just an hour and some change conversation about these things. There's no way we can get into the depth and density and complexity of all that there is one within this beautiful book, but two within all of these issues. This is lifetimes and lifetimes of work.
So thank you so much for contributing to this lifetime, these lifetimes of work and doing this work. My final question to you just attempt to round out our conversation in a beautiful way is a nod to language, but what is one word that describes how you feel right now?
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:12:57.862)
What popped into my mind is the word joyful. And I feel joyful because it's been such a wonderful conversation.
Reese Brown (01:13:10.792)
I couldn't agree more. These conversations light me up and it even makes me think about what you were mentioning in the beginning that there is so much, we are in such a scary time and yet there is so much hope. And it is conversations like this and books like this that give me that hope. So.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:13:39.142)
And let me just reflect back what, for listeners to know this is the first time we've ever met. And Reese, you're an amazing host and I love the spirit in which you are presenting yourself and your questions and your inquiry and making space for these conversations. And thank you so much for having me as a guest. It's been really, really special.
Reese Brown (01:13:45.128)
Yes.
Reese Brown (01:14:04.104)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kind words and your time and energy in over the last little bit of time. I'm really excited to share this conversation that we've had. I will absolutely be in touch and let you know dates that things are released and all of that good stuff. But yes, I cannot thank you enough and I will talk with you very soon.
Osprey Orielle Lake (01:14:32.966)
Thanks so much.
Reese Brown (01:14:34.28)
Thank you.