Reese Brown (00:29.249)

Shannon, thank you so much for being here with me today and taking the time and energy to have a conversation about your story, but also this beautiful story, Breaking Free. One, I just love all the colors on it. I think it's just beautiful and like is a perfect visual representation of what the book.

Shannon Talbot (00:29.774)

Amazing. Yeah, let's do it.

Reese Brown (00:59.073)

communicates to, which is just so lovely. The first question that I always like to start with just to really kick things off on a good foot is what is one thing you're grateful for right now?

Shannon Talbot (01:12.814)

Great question. So Reese, and thanks for having me here too. It's great to be here. You know what? I had a really, really great evening last night with my husband and my two sons. And sometimes I feel like we're all passing ships in the night because we're all so busy. And we had this just impromptu really nice evening together. And I'm just really grateful that we had quality time that wasn't in front of the TV together.

Reese Brown (01:18.529)

my gosh, of course.

Reese Brown (01:41.633)

Yes. Right. You're like actually face to face and talking, which is nice. I love that. Okay. Well, second question that I always ask that will really kickstart our conversation is what is your story? For the listeners, a lot of Shannon's story is also discussed in the book Breaking Free, but whatever you're called to share right now is perfect.

Shannon Talbot (01:42.51)

Yes.

Shannon Talbot (02:06.03)

Sure. So I think the story I like to share most with people, and I know I'm sure the listeners are all at different stages and things like that. So take what you may from my story, but I, in 2008, that was kind of when things started to really change for me. That was the year I got married, and it was also the year I took a leave of absence from work to go and do my MBA.

Reese Brown (02:13.089)

Yes.

Shannon Talbot (02:31.15)

And I was working at a bank in the time I come from. I worked in corporate for 17 years before starting my own business. And that was my first real title. Until then, we don't have titles. And I became a Mrs. And it's funny because it's really, it's just a title, right? But with that title, I put expectations on myself. And I told myself, Shannon, you don't like cooking? Well, no, too bad. Now's the time you really have to step it up. You need to cook. You're a wife now.

Reese Brown (02:51.649)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (03:00.558)

you need to learn to garden and sow and all these things. And my husband wasn't asking for any of that. Like he's an incredible person. He's super supportive. He loves doing that stuff, but I told myself I had to. And also I was reliant on his income for the first time ever. Like I'd been making money since I was 12. And so I was reliant on him and I thought, no, this is, you know, I reverted back to being a 1950s housewife, which...

Reese Brown (03:12.449)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (03:26.51)

which was just a bit silly and you know lots of my friends who are stay -at -home moms and I admire that and it's really hard work and but for some reason I put this pressure on myself that was like Shannon like no you have to be a different person and I started losing a bit of myself. I started acting how I thought I should in these situations. Meanwhile I went back to work I ended up you know moving up the corporate ladder at work and with each you know new title.

Reese Brown (03:36.595)

Mm.

Reese Brown (03:46.305)

you

Shannon Talbot (03:55.214)

And then I started managing people and I started getting more and more responsibility. And then I started telling myself again, now you have to act this way or now you have to be this way. And it just kept building. And I would, you know, it came to be too much. I wasn't good at prioritizing my wellbeing. I wasn't good at looking after stress or anxiety. And I did what I said, what I call press the easy button and I would switch jobs. I'd switch companies and I hid things. Like I hid...

Reese Brown (04:09.857)

you

Reese Brown (04:20.673)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (04:24.014)

struggling with infertility at work. We moved on, we couldn't get pregnant, we adopted our kids. I had that at work because again, I was so afraid of what people would think and how I would be treated and would it impact my career negatively. So, you know, I still had a really great career. I still did really well. I had the husband, we later had the two kids and on paper, everything looks fantastic.

Reese Brown (04:40.033)

Right?

Shannon Talbot (04:52.43)

And actually it was ticking the boxes of how I would have defined success. Like all of the boxes were being checked, but I just, there was still something missing. So the first part of my journey, so my journey has two parts. The first part of my journey was when my then five -year -old, he's 10 now, was admitted to hospital for 31 days.

Reese Brown (05:10.049)

Mm -hmm.

Shannon Talbot (05:18.126)

I'd like to say it's his appendix gone rogue, something simple that turned into a nightmare. And it was the first time my career really took a back seat. And I sat and I asked myself three questions. And they said, am I happy? Am I healthy? Do I feel fulfilled? And my answers were like, not really. But then the next feeling was guilt because I was like, Shannon, on paper, you're incredible.

Reese Brown (05:21.313)

Right.

Reese Brown (05:36.161)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (05:47.246)

How can you feel that something's missing? But this time I said, I'm not going to listen to the guilt and I'm going to chase my happy as I like to call it and look out, you know, find those things. So I started out, you know, I moved from banking into advertising into a more creative space. I set a 10 year goal for myself to start a business, all these things. But I still was holding myself back a bit. I was still letting the fears and the...

Reese Brown (05:53.249)

Mm.

Shannon Talbot (06:17.326)

silly stories we tell ourselves, holding ourselves back. So then the next big pivotal moment for me was January, 2021. I was pushing my then five -year -old. There's something that happens when my kids are five. They're like wise beyond their years. And I was pushing my then five -year -old who's now eight, almost nine on the swing. And he said, mommy, can I give you a goal this year? And I was really excited. I was like, yes. I was doing my coaching certifications at the time on the side and I was like, yeah, but.

Reese Brown (06:27.393)

Wow.

Shannon Talbot (06:47.214)

What's your goal for me?" And he said, can you be less angry this year? You're angry all the time. And that was not the goal I was expecting, but it was the goal I needed to hear. And that was the goal that finally was my wake -up call to say, okay, Shannon, yes, you've made some progress, but you're still playing it safe in a way and it is time.

Reese Brown (06:56.865)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (07:16.846)

to live a more meaningful life. It's time to do what's right for you and not chase what I traditionally chased as success. And so a few months later, I quit my corporate job. I started my coaching and speaking business and then later fulfilled my dream of writing this book, Breaking Free as well. Yes.

Reese Brown (07:25.025)

Right.

Reese Brown (07:39.905)

crazy how life always gives us those goals that we need to hear, right? Not always the ones that we want, but the universe brings us exactly what we need. I want to revisit, there's several points in your story where you talk about the things that we think we should do or the things that, you know, are the boxes that we're checking. Where do you think those shoulds come from? Where do you think they come from?

Shannon Talbot (07:48.334)

Yes.

Shannon Talbot (07:55.502)

Okay.

Reese Brown (08:09.729)

those boxes come from? Because I totally agree. It feels like there's almost this list that exists inside of our heads of this is how I will be happy, healthy, successful, good, worthy. Where do you think that messaging begins? Mm hmm.

Shannon Talbot (08:23.758)

So mine is so, and it's funny, I don't think I connected the dots until I started writing my book. And I don't know if you've ever played the game of life. Mine literally came from playing the game of life as a child. And I'm an 80s child in case anyone's wondering how old I am. And I played the game of life and it was...

It was driven by, okay, I'm going to go to school after high school. I'm going to, in that case, like for me, it was the money, right? And if you got the lawyer card, you made the most money. So back then the game was, if you became a lawyer, you made 50 ,000 a year. And then you get married, then you have the kids and you have enough kids to fit in the car. So I was like, even in my mind, I'm like, you have to have four kids. Four kids is the number of kids to have.

Reese Brown (09:09.857)

Right.

Shannon Talbot (09:15.118)

and you buy the house and you get the insurances. And on one hand, it's good to teach you some of those things, but it's hilarious. I brought out the game recently and I played it with my kids who are almost nine and 11 now. And right away they were like, what if I don't want to get married? I don't want to get married. Especially my nine -year -old who really like claims right now he's never getting married or anything. And maybe he won't, it's up to him. But it was this whole thing. Like, what if I don't want kids? What if, you know?

Reese Brown (09:40.193)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (09:44.43)

it was them questioning and I loved it because I was like, yes, we should be questioning. But I think depending on how you were raised and your family values and society and all of this stuff, right, we were raised with a certain, you know, expectation to, you know, make at least make a stable income, right? Maybe it wasn't always about the money and title and things like that. But yeah, you need to, you know, make a stable income. You need to have a stable job. You need to, you know,

Reese Brown (10:02.721)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (10:13.422)

have a life partner, whatever it is, have kids so when you're older, someone can look after you, right? It was all of these things that we were told would lead to success, but it's not always true. And really, it wasn't until probably just a couple of years ago when I started to finally redefine what success was for me. Well, I'll share that.

Reese Brown (10:16.257)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (10:36.417)

How do you define it now?

Shannon Talbot (10:41.998)

I made a mistake even still. When I left corporate, I defined success and I still messed up. I still defined it as money. And actually that was the main driver was money. And it wasn't until I had a conversation with my cousin's wife who's also an entrepreneur and I was like, I'm not even going to come close to making my definite like this.

Reese Brown (11:09.569)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (11:10.542)

goal, my first year, and she's like, what's your goal? And I shared it with her and she goes, that's absurd. Like it's your first year of business. What were you thinking? Like, I don't know. But then I realized I didn't leave the corporate world to make the money. I could have stayed there if it was just about the money. I was making really good money when I left. I was at the peak of my career. If it was just about the money, I would have stayed. I left because I wanted better balance, because I wanted the freedom.

Reese Brown (11:15.457)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (11:25.281)

Right. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (11:39.31)

And I really wanted to help make a difference in people's lives. I want to help people live happier and healthier and more fulfilling lives. And that is the whole reason why I started my company. And so I had to redefine success and I had to, you know, make it more about the meaning of what the work I'm doing and then also include my family in there too. And it's, you know, one of my dreams and it's so simple, but it's something I could never do before was I just wanted to walk my kids to and from school.

Reese Brown (11:54.113)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (12:09.678)

Because I couldn't do that before. Like I was always at work before they'd even leave kind of thing. And that was one simple thing. Success to me was doing that. Right? And I think that's our thing. It's also looking at what are those small moments in your every day that are going to bring you joy versus getting so fixated on the big milestones that yes, bring us joy, but it's usually fleeting right after.

Reese Brown (12:23.425)

Absolutely. I really do think that goes back to like this concept of the difference between happiness and joy, right? That joy is tinged with so many different complex feelings and emotions and the impermanence of life and

Shannon Talbot (12:39.726)

Mm hmm.

Reese Brown (12:52.513)

you know, through the face of hardship, still cultivating joy, whereas happiness is this kind of fleeting feeling, right? Depending on how you define these two different things. And I absolutely agree. Where do you think that that message gets either stuck in our brains as young kids, because I think so many of us have this kind of conveyor belt that we're plopped on that says,

high school, get good grades, so you can go to college to get good grades, so you can get a good job to make good money and work your way up the ladder, so you can get a good partner, so you can have the good kids, the good family, the good retirement, and you're happy? It's been joyful, maybe, along the way? Where do you think that messaging originates? Why are we socialized in this way?

Shannon Talbot (13:50.638)

I think it's just typically how we've rewarded people. And it's so funny too, because I'm now on this next path and writing my next book and it is more about the happiness and the joy and the small moments and things like that. And it's interesting because two years ago I was going to start down this path and I started sharing with some people, you know what I'm going to, I love studying happiness and I'm going to start.

Reese Brown (13:54.049)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (14:16.718)

studying happiness and work, you know, do that for my work and I would get told, that's fluffy. Happiness is fluffy. And it's funny at the time it deterred me enough to not do it. And now I'm like, what? Since when is happiness fluffy? Since when is joy? Not like, shouldn't be one of our top priorities, right? If we are, and it's interesting too, because, and unfortunately,

Reese Brown (14:19.489)

Yeah. Right.

Shannon Talbot (14:46.542)

is I'll ask my kids, I'll say, what do you think is the number one driver? I'll probably use a different word because I might not know what that means, but I can't think of another one. But what's the number one driver in happiness? And it's fine. We know one of my sons first was like to get rich, like to have lots of money. And I'm like, no. And then my other kids like to be a famous YouTuber. And I'm like, no. And that's, so even now, like what worries me is, is.

Reese Brown (14:51.009)

Right.

Reese Brown (15:07.745)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (15:14.99)

their definition to be famous, right? Like with all these YouTubers and I know like podcasts like yours and your YouTube, you know, it's super helpful, but there's a lot of stuff out there where people are making millions of dollars for playing video games online, right? So now it worries me that their definition may not necessarily be money, but it's about the celebrity factor. And that's being influenced by social media. So for me, like I just, I'm on this mission now and it's, I'm trying to do it with my kids too and it's,

Reese Brown (15:28.385)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (15:44.718)

Like, no, it's about, and Harvard did the longest running study on happiness. And the number one factor is relationships. And not even just romantic, like just strong, positive relationships in your lives are the number one factor to happiness. And that's what I really want to hone in on and want my kids to realize and recognize and work on in this, you know, developing connection. But also the number one

Reese Brown (15:48.697)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (16:12.782)

stressor right now is money. So I do feel like relationships are really important, but then also financial stability enough to, you know, not be stressed about paying your bills and the cost of groceries and everything right now. I think financial stability is also really important. And I think that's somewhere to that. I think, you know, these are things not necessarily taught in schools, right? Like the two, two of the most insti -

Reese Brown (16:25.569)

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Shannon Talbot (16:42.03)

important factors of our lives are not taught in schools. And that's what I would love to see change. Yes.

Reese Brown (16:49.345)

Well, and it really is like bridging this gap between what we need to do to survive, right? And what we really need to do to thrive and finding a way to make those things live happily next to each other and hold both is really difficult, especially with this messaging. And I relate to your two boys a little bit in the sense of,

Shannon Talbot (17:11.95)

Mm.

Reese Brown (17:19.201)

being raised in the age of social media and celebrity is the biggest currency. That follower count is a huge currency. And even being a young entrepreneur wanting to, you know, survive and thrive, a lot of the time the question is, well, what's your follower count that will determine the amount of money we will give you. Like it has a direct one -to -one translation correlation. And...

I think what you said about it being this reward system is really enlightening to me because money has always been how we reward people. And of course, what you reward people with is what is valued. If that is the thing that, you know, you do a good job, so you get a hundred dollar bill. It's like, well, of course that's value being placed on that money that you're getting. And where are we as a society placing our value on that all our account on that money?

Shannon Talbot (18:14.158)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (18:17.825)

on our interpersonal relationships, on our personal growth, on all of these other things.

Shannon Talbot (18:19.758)

Yeah, and I was even talking, my husband and I have had some pretty awesome and deep conversations lately just on, he's not as into personal growth as I am. So he's like, no, here we go again. But he's been really great. And it was even, you know, it's funny because we look back and some of our favorite times are when we didn't.

Reese Brown (18:30.657)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (18:46.414)

money. When we did Europe on the cheap and one place we stayed in was horrible. But I remember that over the nicer hotel. And I said to him, I'm like, we need to get back to this nice balance of, yes, still we love to travel. We want to afford to travel and do things like that. But also not what's I always mix up the saying, but we don't want to work to live. We want to live.

Reese Brown (19:01.313)

Yeah. Yes. To work. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (19:13.07)

to work or whichever the right one is. In Europe, they do it right. In North America, we're so busy working that then we don't always have the time to even enjoy the financial benefits of our work or we're too tired at the end of the day to even hang out with the people we love.

Reese Brown (19:30.945)

Absolutely. Well, and I was reading something the other day that was talking about how our bodies are not meant for hard strenuous work for eight to nine hours a day. Like our brain physically can't be focused for that long. And this study was talking about like students that had like really condensed, like three hours of good, hard focus. And then the rest of the time was play,

creativity, expansive kind of thinking, and they're energized after that, they're actually more productive, things are getting done more because that's the capacity that our brain actually has. And I think the more and more that we learn about the self, the more and more I think you're also spot on the things that we teach in school, like this needs to be incorporated into.

Shannon Talbot (20:10.222)

Is this?

Reese Brown (20:28.129)

policy and actionable changes that will help people like your kiddos and the future generation hopefully have a different outlook on what the real reward is. I want to dive in to this bad boy, your book, and I actually just want to start with the title. I think so often,

Shannon Talbot (20:37.87)

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Shannon Talbot (20:54.638)

Mm -hmm.

Reese Brown (20:55.393)

I, my master's is in English. So of course I'm like the textual stuff is all I read into things sometimes, but I also think it's deeply interesting because we tend to brush by titles so often, of books. And I really want to talk about what the words you've chosen here mean. Breaking free.

First question that comes to mind for me is, what are we breaking free from?

Shannon Talbot (21:25.678)

Hmm. So it can be different things. The overall concept behind breaking free was, break it down really simple, was get out of your own way. Like break free from the chains. Like in my picture, I almost went with, I chose birds, but because it's more beautiful and I really love birds and there's been times in my life where I've been struggling having a...

Reese Brown (21:39.425)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (21:53.518)

rough day and I live in downtown Toronto and there'll be like a hawk outside on the tree outside my window which is not normal and I'm like okay interesting or I'll go to my parents and there'll be an owl there which is also a bit rare to see. So I have this thing with birds. But really to picture it like I picture we're handcuffed in a way and we're handcuffed to how we think we should be or think we should act or what society tells us to do and so we hold ourselves back.

Right, even just a little bit sometimes, or we let our fears stop us from going after what we really want. And so breaking free to me means to stop holding yourself back, to chase your dreams, chase your goals, go after whatever a meaningful life means to you. And it can mean whatever you want. There's no judgment here, right? Everyone is entitled to their own dreams and goals and whatever lights them up. But it is, it's really about setting yourself free.

Reese Brown (22:26.977)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (22:51.374)

to bring more of what you want into your life.

Reese Brown (22:55.137)

I love that we are both, forgive this language, but our captors and our rescuers, like we play both of those roles, which that's actually a great segue into a section in your book that talks about roles and titles. And, you know, I'll throw it back to what you mentioned, the beginning of your story that you felt the need to take on this.

Shannon Talbot (23:03.246)

Yeah, I like that.

Reese Brown (23:23.713)

50s housewife kind of role because that is the way. So I'm in Texas, deep south. Well, south west. Texas is its own thing, but there's certainly a lot of expectations around what marriage is supposed to look like, what a good wife looks like, what a good woman looks like. And I was lucky enough to

Shannon Talbot (23:25.23)

Yeah. Yeah.

Reese Brown (23:52.353)

be raised in a home that broke free of a lot of those messages. But, you know, we're still socialized around us, even if our family of origin is not communicating those messages, the world around us still does. What do you think that piece about roles and titles does to our brain in terms of those like expectations that...

Both are put on us externally, but like you mentioned, also internally. Like your husband didn't even have, wasn't asking for, you know, stay in the kitchen, clean the house, but still we have this like internalized piece. I would just talk to me about that more.

Shannon Talbot (24:31.31)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (24:38.254)

Yeah. And I have to say, and of course I'm a coach, I'm going to, you know, I'm biased, but I think there is a really big reason why coaches and therapists and counselors and mentors and all these people exist as professions. And they're growing. The numbers in those fields are growing because all of us, every single one of us forms beliefs.

and stories about ourselves from the time we were born and as we grow, right? Our parents, our teachers, grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings, friends, society, social media, right? Each layer or each person will have an impact on us for good or for bad, right? Sometimes it's for good, which is lovely, but also sometimes it's for bad. And we develop these beliefs about ourselves.

Reese Brown (25:10.593)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (25:37.582)

that we may not even know are there. And I call them our blind spots. So if I can, I have two examples. So one example, one of my clients that I worked with, she was really at this point in her career where she wasn't happy. And so we started chatting and she's like, ugh, everyone around me is getting promoted. Everyone's making more money than me. Everyone's getting better projects than me. And it was this whole thing of like everyone else. And...

It was true, like there were facts to back it up, but also at the same time, it's like, okay, well, what's your role in this? Or like, what are you doing about it? Because at the end of the day, we're responsible for our lives and our careers. And I was getting a lot of pushback. And so I did an exercise with her that I don't always do that early on because it can not always go, you know, there has to be a good amount of trust and everything there and a good rapport.

Reese Brown (26:14.049)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (26:29.333)

Rapport and yes, absolutely.

Shannon Talbot (26:34.382)

But I didn't exercise with her. Well, we went back to her childhood and she looked around for when she started, you know, forming some of these beliefs. And we uncovered that when she was nine, well, we didn't uncover this. When she was nine, she was diagnosed with diabetes. Diabetes changed her whole life, right? Like everything kind of changed overnight. She was really sick too, which is how they diagnosed her, all this stuff. Not fun for anyone living with diabetes.

Reese Brown (26:53.985)

Mm.

Shannon Talbot (27:04.686)

But what we uncovered was she told herself in that moment, I'm never going to be like the other people. I'm never going to be like everyone else. I'm always going to be, I'm paraphrasing, but less than. So then she grew up telling herself she's less than, or she's average, or she's never going to do great things. So what happens when we have those beliefs as a child? Well, you're going to believe them as fact.

Reese Brown (27:13.345)

Mm.

Reese Brown (27:33.633)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (27:33.902)

and you're going to think they're true and then you're not going to go for the promotion or you're not going to put yourself out there. But you don't always realize what is behind it. Right. And I have a similar I share a story in my book that we do not talk about as a family. I come from a small town of eight thousand people. My dad was a lawyer. My mom was a teacher of elementary school. Everyone knows everybody. And when my brother was

12, he couldn't live with us anymore. He clashed so much with my parents, he kept running away, that it no longer became safe for him to live with us. And he had to go live with a foster family. And that's a story of a lot of, and I know Brene Brown's from Texas, like she talks about shame, right? Like it's a lot of shame on all of us. And I was five, like I was young. I don't really remember.

Reese Brown (28:12.545)

Mm.

Reese Brown (28:20.193)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (28:28.814)

I had to get my family to fill me in on the details when I wrote this story in the chapter, because I was like, I don't know. My brother apparently even was hopping a train to go from our small town to Montreal, which was like a 10 -hour train ride or eight -hour train ride. Like ridiculous at age 12. So all this stuff that I didn't remember. But when my kid was five, my oldest was five, I was having struggles with him. And I wasn't really...

Reese Brown (28:32.705)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (28:47.585)

Right.

Shannon Talbot (28:57.998)

disciplining him in the sense of I was probably letting him get away with more than I should have. And I went and saw a therapist and in one session she linked it to, okay, if I discipline him, he could run away. And it's like, what? You know, like I was like mind blowing. And again, sometimes we can connect our own dots, sometimes we can't, so do what works for you. But just in one session with her.

Reese Brown (29:12.705)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Reese Brown (29:23.809)

Sure.

Shannon Talbot (29:27.598)

was able to be like, my gosh, that is why I'm acting this way, and then start to tell myself new stories. Right?

Reese Brown (29:30.785)

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and it's so easy. The stories that we tell ourselves, they wear well -worn grooves in our brains, right? With this is the narrative that I know that it's easy to repeat. It's easy to go back to. And changing that narrative is so difficult, but so important, especially when that story started when you were five, right? It's like it didn't even start. Like it has been there.

Shannon Talbot (29:41.12)

Thank you.

Shannon Talbot (29:57.518)

Mm -hmm.

Reese Brown (30:02.625)

the whole time and with your client, that beautiful story. It's like started when she was young. These are things that we don't have control over the messages that were being given all the time. But we do have control over what we do with them now, right? I love, well, I love, I was about to say I love the shame piece. Of course I don't love it, but I think it's very important.

Shannon Talbot (30:18.414)

Yes, exactly.

Shannon Talbot (30:25.262)

hahahaha

Reese Brown (30:30.337)

And I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown. Some of her books are behind me right now. And of course, like I think everyone doing this work has a soft spot for Brene and everything that she does. But I think shame is a huge piece of this, especially for women. I think it's really easy for us to roll into shame and guilt. And you talk about that in your book and there's...

Shannon Talbot (30:34.638)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (30:41.422)

Mm -hmm.

Reese Brown (30:57.633)

one thing that I wanted to make sure I asked about and I have it marked because it was about the shame of rejection. And I think that this is such a big piece, especially when we're talking about socialization and the messages we get from the world around us.

And I've never heard someone talk about this before, but it's always something that I've believed to be true about myself. And I never really knew why. And so this was just really powerful for me. And I would love to just have more of a conversation about it. But in talking about the shame and fear of rejection, you write, rejection stings more when I know the person.

If it's someone I don't know or a famous person, I have no problem putting myself out there. And I don't know if that's true of everybody, but I have always felt that to be so true of myself that if it is like, if I'm at a grocery store and I am there by myself and I don't know anyone, I can be silly, goofy, whoever I want to show up as. When I am at a dinner with my closest friends, that's when I am.

on guard the most. Why do you think that rejection stings the most or we're more aware of that in those settings with the people we know? Because that's where love has been cultivated. It should be the safest place. I would just love to hear more.

Shannon Talbot (32:32.27)

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a really interesting question. And I think it's just we take it more personally. And I think what we do, here's what I think we do. Again, may not be the case for everybody, but I think we take a rejection from someone we know. It means they don't like me, which may not be the case, right?

Reese Brown (32:44.001)

Hmm.

Reese Brown (32:58.785)

Mmm.

Shannon Talbot (33:04.814)

But we immediately go to, you know, I see it in my friend group and I've been guilty of it too, right? You'll have, you'll text somebody, be like, hey, you wanna meet for a coffee on Thursday? And then like, or, you know, last night was really fun. I had so much fun with you. And then you don't hear back. And what do you do? You immediately go to, my gosh, they hate me. They didn't have fun. I'm saying I had fun. They don't feel the same way. They don't know what to say. Right? So we go, we tell ourselves all these stories.

Reese Brown (33:22.593)

Yeah. They hate me.

Shannon Talbot (33:33.678)

And nine times out of 10, it's, my gosh, I've been so busy, but yes, I had a great time. Right? Nine times out of 10, people are just really, really busy or they missed it. Like they saw your text, but then they forgot to respond or whatever it is. But I think we just have such a desire to be liked that it's hard. And so the way I've started, you know, I've worked on dealing with that. Well, I have a couple of ways. So one is a few years ago, I put,

Reese Brown (33:53.217)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (34:03.758)

I have it on a sticky note and it's C -L -W -O -T, which just sounds kind of funny. It's like Klawat and it's care less what others think. And I wrote, and it's funny because I wrote it as an acronym because I didn't want anyone to see it, which is like ironic. But I share this now when I go do talks to organizations, especially if it's groups of women, I share this because I was like, care less what others think.

Reese Brown (34:21.761)

Right?

Shannon Talbot (34:30.126)

At the end of the day, and I know you talk a lot about energy on your show, at the end of the day, if you are trying to be someone different to fit in, you're just using a lot of energy. And I think the beautiful thing is once you can be more of yourself, once you can care less and be more silly or be more authentic or share what you're really feeling, you're going to find your true friends and your true group.

Reese Brown (34:58.401)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (34:59.438)

And it may be different, right? It may not be the people you're hanging around with right now, which sucks. And it's hard and it's hard to move on from groups. But sometimes we do. Sometimes we outgrow people, especially, you know, if anyone's into personal development, I find too, you know, the more you do, the more you realize who's not into it. And sometimes it's harder to be around those people. I know I find that personally. So it's finding your right people. It's being yourself. It's just...

Reese Brown (35:10.593)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (35:28.718)

caring less what others think. And at the end of the day, yes, it still might sting that if a friend makes a comment or doesn't like the person you're becoming or whatever, but you'll find your people.

Reese Brown (35:30.849)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (35:41.665)

Yeah. How do you think, what are ways that we can practice? Klawat. What are ways that we can start integrating this maybe into like a daily routine or is it just that daily reminder or like writing it on a sticky note and sticking it on your forehead or something or on your mirror? What are, yeah, what are...

Shannon Talbot (36:04.27)

Right. That's a great, yes, do that. I recommend that. You can make up a story of what it's there for. I don't know. Have fun with it or make up a new acronym, what works for you. Another thing, I don't know if you ever saw the show Schitt's Creek. Okay. So it's a Canadian show, like film just outside Toronto, but I love. So the other thing I tell people is think of Moira Rose. So anyone who doesn't know Schitt's Creek,

Reese Brown (36:12.353)

Yeah. Yeah.

Reese Brown (36:19.153)

my goodness, I love Schitt's Creek.

Yes.

Shannon Talbot (36:33.582)

The story is it's a really wealthy family loses everything basically overnight everything and they have to move in to a really rundown hotel in a really, really like small, small, small village, which is not, you know, it's a complete opposite of the life they're used to living. And Moira Rose was like a B actress with all these elaborate, you know, wigs and outfits and stuff like that. And rather than.

switch for like overalls and plaid shirts and whatever else which she would wear to fit in with that community, she stays who she is. She wears the elaborate outfits and wigs and talks with her accent sometimes and she is who she is. And I picture her a lot to remind myself, okay, it's funny, I say be like Moira Rose, but I don't really mean that because that would be being somebody else. But think about how she is. Be authentic like Moira Rose.

Reese Brown (37:08.833)

Mm.

Reese Brown (37:24.961)

Right.

Reese Brown (37:29.409)

Right. Yes.

Shannon Talbot (37:30.83)

It was like, be you, be you as best you can and remember that. And then another exercise I do with my clients that I find can be really fun and also cathartic is if there are people that you still think about that or old friends that maybe you've grown apart with or a bad relationship or a teacher that annoyed you or something, right?

you know, write it down on a piece of paper. You can put like on a sticky note, one per person or whatever, and then do some type of letting go ritual. Whether it's having a bonfire and safely and putting the pieces of paper in a fire, or I've had one of my clients went and threw rocks into a lake. So for every thing she wanted to let go of, she threw a rock into the lake. You can just rip up the pieces of paper, whatever works for you.

Reese Brown (38:04.673)

Hmm.

Reese Brown (38:15.713)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (38:23.758)

But sometimes if we do that letting go, you do a ritual that I'm going to let go of the people that don't love me for me. I'm going to let go of them and not let them still impact me. It can be a really nice way to also move on and start caring less what others think.

Reese Brown (38:31.649)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (38:40.993)

Absolutely. I love that. And I think so often we do at least maybe I'm projecting, but I get when doing this work stuck inside of my own head. And it's like, you're trying to do this work all mentally. And so having something that you can physically do to represent it is really great for getting that feeling into your body. And I love this like image of this like strong.

growing of the rock and like having that like physicality to represent the work that you're trying to do is really beautiful and powerful. And I think having something as like a physical marker does help us.

internalize that a little bit more. Sometimes I'll say, it's easy to like take the pill, but we still have to wait for it to dissolve, right? Like, you know, you pop an ibuprofen and your headache still is there for a little bit. We can have all of these beliefs, but until that pill is dissolved, it's like, we're still practicing. So I think that's really beautiful. Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (39:34.478)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (39:44.238)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (39:50.35)

Yeah. Thank you. And one, I like the, I like the ibuprofen metaphor. That's a good one. And I'll say too, one of the things that held me back. So maybe there's somebody, you know, maybe it's a best friend, maybe it's a boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, partner, whatever it is. Maybe even your parents, right? Our parents still have a big hold over us no matter how old we get. For me, I was...

Reese Brown (39:56.993)

Ha ha ha ha!

Reese Brown (40:13.121)

Totally.

Shannon Talbot (40:19.086)

When I knew I wanted to pursue Shannon 2 .0, although I'm kind of on Shannon 3 .0, I would say now. But when I was looking at potentially leaving corporate, starting my own job, being more authentic, showing up more authentic, being more vulnerable, my husband is the complete opposite of me. Like I share everything now. I didn't when I was in corporate because I was so afraid of how I would be judged. But now my whole goal is, no, I want to share the messy. I want to share the vulnerable. I want to share the struggles.

Reese Brown (40:34.465)

Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (40:48.334)

because there was no one really around doing that for me when I was young and trying to figure stuff out. So I want to be able to be that person to help share and just really let people know they're not alone. But I will say I was really nervous to start to make some of the changes because I told myself I'm about to change and not be the person my husband married and

what if we get divorced over it? And that really, I think, held me back too, because I was so worried that, my gosh, I'm, you know, he didn't marry authentic, although he did, I was pretty authentic with him from the beginning, but it was like I had this fear that authentic Shannon is going to be worse versus better. Right? So I think sometimes we think that too, well, people aren't going to like us if we show up as ourselves. But at the end,

It was so much better, like our relationship's better. We just, you know, again, I'm not wasting the energy of trying to be somebody else. I'm happier, and I think when you're happier, everyone around you benefits.

Reese Brown (41:56.321)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's really real in the sense that it's like, if I start showing up authentically, who am I going to lose? Is it going to cause problems with my family, with my friends, with my partner, my spouse, my kids, anything, right? My job? What are the ripple effects of that?

And I think that what you touched on earlier is, at least for me, has really rung true in doing this work that you will lose people. Absolutely you will. And that is part of the journey and part of the growing, but it's almost like a magnet, right? Where it's like when you're magnetized for your true North, you're better able to attract the people that are meant for you, right? And so it's like, yeah.

Shannon Talbot (42:54.158)

Mm -hmm.

Reese Brown (42:55.649)

Some people will be pushed away by that new magnet, right? Like other magnets are, but that's making space for people who can better resonate. But it's certainly hard in that journey. There's another piece in this book that I really wanted to talk about. yes. When your...

Shannon Talbot (43:05.486)

Yeah, love that.

Yes.

Reese Brown (43:24.129)

kids seem so wise beyond their years. Your oldest being in the hospital and as he was going into surgery, you say that he turns to you and says, mommy remember, be brave and always be yourself. And then earlier you shared the story of can I give you a goal? Be less angry. As a mom, how has just the role, the title, the

Shannon Talbot (43:27.17)

You

Reese Brown (43:52.769)

feeling of motherhood changed your relationship to self growth, but also seeing yourself through your kiddo's eyes and hearing these really powerful messages. I'm like, kids are much more wise than I think anyone gives them credit for. So yeah, just talk to me about that and what that has been like for your journey.

Shannon Talbot (44:10.798)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (44:15.726)

Yeah, I think one of the...

I find too, like one of a moment for me was when I worked with my first coach and it's a silly example, well not silly example, it's a simple example and it was she was like what's your what what are some of the things you want to do get done this week or whatever and I said well I want to go I'm going I said I'm going to try and go to yoga and she was like try yeah no are you going or you're not going like there is no try.

Reese Brown (44:42.273)

Mmm.

Shannon Talbot (44:50.51)

it's you're going or you're not going. I'm like, okay, I'm going to yoga. And she's like, well, what's your hesitation? And this was pre -COVID and I was like, well, I'll go on my way home from work, but then that means I get home a bit later. And then I only have an hour with my kids before bed. So again, the guilt factor. And she said, okay, but who are you when you get home?

and which version is better for your kids. And that was so powerful for me to hear. And that is something that I now carry around. And my gosh, I have my faults. My kids have too much screen time. We definitely are not perfect parents. I don't think anyone's a perfect parent. But it's really given me the drive to be like, okay, who do I want my kids to be? What behaviors do I want to role model?

Reese Brown (45:31.529)

No one is, right?

Reese Brown (45:39.041)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (45:41.838)

And I think that's something where my husband and I are really aligned on is at the end of the day, we want to create kind, good kids, right? I don't care if you make, you know, how much money you make or what role you do. I want you to be happy. I want you to be kind. I want you to be healthy. And that's what matters at the end of the day. And so just being able to role model those behaviors. It's funny, when I started my business, I started as a health coach.

Reese Brown (46:03.393)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (46:11.534)

But then I moved into more this performance and coaching and lifestyle kind of coaching things. But right now, almost 11 year old will still be like, I don't understand. Why did you leave health coaching? Like, it's so important. People need health coaches. I don't get it. I think you should go back to that. And they're just so funny. But yeah, just really role modeling for them and hoping for the best, right, is all we can really do.

Reese Brown (46:17.889)

Mm -hmm.

Reese Brown (46:38.401)

Yeah, truly. Well, and isn't it so interesting that...

such a big part. I at least I feel this with my friends. I am not a parent, so it certainly don't have that experience. But I do think that there's this interesting thing that like, because you care about your kids so much, and like they are the most important thing to a parent, right? That it almost puts even more

responsibility to be the best version of yourself because that's what I want for my kids, right? And I think that's so powerful. Like, sure, you could be home for two hours and tired and maybe grumpy from work, or you can be home for one and really be the person for your kids that you want to be that night because you're taking care of yourself.

Shannon Talbot (47:31.822)

Yeah. And that's a big message I want them to know too. If I go out to meet a friend or my youngest really loves me putting him to bed and he wants me to put him to bed every single night. I'm like, sometimes I'm going to go out and meet a friend and then he's, or we'll do date night and we got to sit her in. And it's always the guilt, right? Cause I'll be like, no, mom, what do you mean you can't put me to bed tonight? But I'll tell him, you like to spend time with your friends and it's important. It is also important.

Reese Brown (47:43.681)

Mm -hmm.

Right?

Reese Brown (48:00.449)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (48:01.774)

for adults to spend time with their friends or important for date nights or whatever that is. Like I just want him to know these things now. So he doesn't become like some of us who as we grew up, we're like, our life needs to revolve 100 % around our kids. No, yes, kids are important. They're our top priority. But we need to be doing stuff that brings us happiness and joy and energy as well so we can be better versions for them.

Reese Brown (48:15.681)

Yeah!

Reese Brown (48:23.681)

Yes, totally. And it does make you better able to parent them, right? At least I would imagine again, I am not a parent, but. That is so interesting. There's one, I've been in therapy for a very long time. My mom has her LPC and so I was raised in a very mental health aware household. But my therapist is actually a couples counselor. That's her normal.

Shannon Talbot (48:32.11)

Yeah, totally. Yeah, no, you got it. You got it.

Reese Brown (48:53.473)

thing, but I've just been with her for so long. So it's, she can't get rid of me now. But of course I pick up bits and pieces from her couples counseling work. And one thing that she certified in PACT, which is a special like form, and they have this concept called the bubble. And it's about how the relationship

Shannon Talbot (48:58.926)

Love that. Yeah.

Reese Brown (49:19.809)

bubble should be your priority. And there's a bunch of research around how that actually does make you a better parent to your kids, because you're modeling taking care of yourself. So I, I love that. And I think that that was something that as a kid who felt like unconditionally loved and like I was the most important thing in my parents life, that it was like, huh, a lot of that actually comes from like your ability to take care of yourself comes from seeing how your parents.

Shannon Talbot (49:30.638)

interesting.

Reese Brown (49:48.801)

take care of themselves first. Yeah. Okay. There's even more good stuff in here. So I want to make sure we dive into it. Kind of towards the middle end, you have an exercise in here called uncovering the real you. I think that it's really so beautiful because so many of us waltz around with a mask, right?

Shannon Talbot (49:50.19)

Yeah, so true. Yeah.

Reese Brown (50:18.721)

And I think sometimes we wear that mask even for ourselves because it's easier sometimes. How do you define real you -ness? I mean, if you want to talk about Shannon specifically, that's great, but also just in general, like what does a real you mean?

Shannon Talbot (50:31.438)

Hehehehe

Shannon Talbot (50:36.91)

Yeah, and I think it's a tricky one, right? Because our brains play tricks on us. So sometimes you're like, is that the real me? Do I really like this? And it's, I know I'm a lot older than you, but the movie Runaway Bride with Julia Roberts is such a classic example. And she keeps getting engaged, but never can finish walking down the aisle to get married. And it shows that she never knew what kind of eggs she liked. So,

Reese Brown (50:45.537)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (51:06.062)

every person she was engaged to, she just assumed their type of eggs. And so one of the things was like, what type of eggs do I actually like? Because she never knew. So it's kind of like that, right? So it's, you know, what do you actually like? Like, when have you noticed you just go along with other people because you don't want to create upset or, you know, maybe you don't care that much, that's okay too. But when do you just go along versus when is it you?

Reese Brown (51:29.697)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (51:35.694)

you know, being you. And I think, you know, one of the ways to do it is think back to when were you the happiest in your life? And unfortunately for a lot of people, it's probably it probably is childhood, right? Before we had responsibilities and stress and all this stuff. But it's thinking and it and again, not everyone's childhood is going to be full of happiness. But thinking of, you know, when is one moment in your life where you were really happy and looking at what was going on then?

What was the environment? Who was around you? What were you doing? It usually is linked to our self -confidence too, when we felt our most confident as well. So what were those parameters that were happening to make you feel that way?

Reese Brown (52:16.097)

Mmm.

Shannon Talbot (52:25.006)

For some of you, it may be like yesterday, which is awesome. Some of you may be living really authentic lives and that is amazing. And you say what you mean all the time and that's great. And it's almost like to, you know, because other people are worried, like, I don't want to be a jerk. And I'm like, no, don't be a jerk. Like, you don't have to go to the point where you're where you have no filter. Right. And you're saying everything as it comes up. No, that's not what being your authentic self is. But it's not changing who you are.

Reese Brown (52:30.753)

you

Reese Brown (52:45.075)

Right.

Shannon Talbot (52:53.518)

for either the situation or the other person. All right, so if you're changing who you are, that's tiring. So who are you when you're most happy, you're most happy, you're most confident, and how can you bring more of that into your life?

Reese Brown (53:01.025)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (53:08.993)

Yeah, I love that. And I do think that to tie this back a little bit into, you know, my work, it's like, when are you the most happy, the most confident? For me, it's when I'm aligned with my purpose, right? And it's like, that is what so many of us, I think, could do with a little bit more of. And at the beginning of our conversation, you noted that your purpose, your real passion is this work is

helping other people find their most authentic selves, uncover, break free, and live more aligned, confident, purpose -filled lives. What do you think it is that, because not everyone has this, I believe everyone has a spark inside of them that is their purpose. But I don't think that purpose is always help other people find their purpose. And as two people who,

Shannon Talbot (54:03.63)

No. Yes.

Reese Brown (54:06.497)

have that kind of energy towards that. How does that help you live a meaningful life? How does helping other people find meaning make your purpose light up?

Shannon Talbot (54:22.734)

I think at the end of the day, that is what brings people the most satisfaction, I want to say. Ideally happiness too, but I think when people are able to do something that's aligned to their why, their purpose, or just something that feels meaningful to them, that is when you can feel most at ease or just happy.

Reese Brown (54:42.241)

you

Shannon Talbot (54:51.31)

whatever words you want to use. But I think so often it sounds daunting or it sounds scary and we don't know what it is. So it's like, I have no idea what that is for me. So, my gosh, I don't even want to try and go there or I'm going to look silly telling somebody I don't know what it is. Right? And most of us don't. And I didn't either for years. I share a story of all I knew was I wanted to get out of banking.

Reese Brown (55:07.585)

Right.

Reese Brown (55:20.705)

Mm.

Shannon Talbot (55:20.782)

And people would say, what do you want to do next? I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea. And I felt silly for saying that. But in reality, like maybe a couple of people judged me being like, well, you better go figure that out. But for the most part, people were lovely. And they're like, OK, well, tell me a bit more. What types of things do you like to do? Right. So it's almost like, what are those bullets of activities, whether personally, professionally, you like to do?

Reese Brown (55:39.571)

you

Shannon Talbot (55:47.854)

we do that or what do you not like to do? Sometimes that's easier. And just every conversation helped me get a little clearer and a little clearer and a little clearer. That's what I want to help people do is I want them, I want to help them just get a little clearer on where they want to go with this life. We have one beautiful life to live. And

Reese Brown (56:00.001)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (56:11.374)

I don't want to, you know, we don't want to wake up tomorrow, find out it's our last day. And I do get morbid a lot of times too, because like sometimes we have to get morbid to realize like if tomorrow was your last day, would you be happy with the life you've lived?

Reese Brown (56:14.529)

Hey.

Reese Brown (56:24.193)

Yeah. Well, and I think that that is deeply important. I, my undergrad studied a lot of philosophy and that really informs a lot of my stuff and a really big thing is the only thing we're guaranteed. The only thing we're promised is death. That is the only thing that life guarantees. And with that, what are you doing with this? And I think it's important to have that.

reminder because it is easy to live asleep, you know, not thinking about that. But as soon as you have that reminder, I mean, there's a reason why so many people when they lose their parents or loved ones like completely changed their life. It's because that is that reminder of this time is finite and special and important. So I think I think a little healthy dose of morbidity is a good thing. It sounds silly, but.

Shannon Talbot (57:18.03)

Yes, I agree. Yeah, it is.

Reese Brown (57:21.921)

I also really want to ask you how did writing this lovely book Breaking Free help you break free personally? I think so often, at least for myself, I mean, you know, the old saying, you really don't know how to do something until you can teach it to someone else. And in trying to spread self -love and spread self -growth and

making meaning and living a meaningful life, more than anything has helped me do that work. So what's that journey been like for you and in being a coach and being someone who is trying to help other people live authentically and chase their happiness? How has that helped you do the same?

Shannon Talbot (58:11.502)

It's just, you know what, sometimes it connected a lot of those dots for me that I didn't realize needed connecting. I uncovered new things. One thing I talk about in the book is a fear of success. And it was like, I never would have ever realized I had a fear of success before, but I did. I had this major fear of success. Like, if I'm successful, then what? Like, I'll be on this next platform and that's scary. And...

So uncovering a lot of things about myself that again allowed me to break free even more were really awesome. And I think another like on a personal, more personal side, asking my family for permission to share the story about my brother was a really big one for our family because we don't talk about it. And in fact, one of my best friends texted me last week.

Reese Brown (58:57.697)

Hmm.

Shannon Talbot (59:09.07)

and said, I just read the story about your brother. She goes, I don't think I ever knew it, like knew the full thing. And I was like, really? And she goes, no, and she's one of my best friends. And meanwhile, we weren't friends when that happened, like we became friends later on, but still it was just that part of being able to talk to my family. We all talked about it. We brought it up. I think it was really important for us to do. And then,

Reese Brown (59:16.147)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (59:25.537)

short.

Shannon Talbot (59:38.926)

Yeah, I think it was just also the part, another thing we haven't talked much about, but I also interviewed some women as well to include in the book because I didn't want it to just be my story because sure, some people are going to relate to my stories, but some may not. And so I wanted to include other stories of other I call us everyday women that, you know, aren't the celebrities. So they're more relatable. So including their stories as well was really...

Reese Brown (59:52.417)

Mm -hmm.

Shannon Talbot (01:00:07.918)

fun to do and just inspiring to hear, you know, inspiring and also like you feel you understand we all go through the same thing. We may not feel like we all go through the same things, but we do. And I'd say that's the biggest compliment I've gotten since releasing the book is I'm having people write me and going, my gosh, it's like you're in my head and you're writing exactly what I've struggled with. And I'm like, I love hearing that because that is what I wanted to do.

Reese Brown (01:00:34.241)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I do think a really big part of, you know, in recognizing the stories that we tell ourselves and tell about ourselves is in owning them and owning our truth. And, you know, how you said like your family didn't talk about that story with your brother and what does that communicate to?

a young child and now the empowerment of being able to say, no, it is a part of my story and it's a part of who I am and what has made me me is a really powerful testament to being able to own all sides of who you are, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of the things. And I also just totally relate to the power of, of course, interviewing people. That's, you know, a big part of what I do is interviewing.

not just celebrities, but everyday people. And we all have a story. We all have at least one great story to tell. And I think that that is really so powerful that your book helps tell that story, not just of you, but of resilience and breaking free across different people.

Shannon Talbot (01:01:33.23)

I'm sorry.

Reese Brown (01:01:59.201)

The last two questions that I always like to finish up conversations with. One is just in light of our conversation, in light of all of these things that we've talked about, chatted about, is there anything that you would like to clarify, return to, add to, or is there something that we haven't touched on at all that you're like, we need to talk about this before?

before we close out. So this is space for if there's anything you would like to discuss, bring up additionally.

Shannon Talbot (01:02:33.71)

I'll just share one more thing. You did a great job, Ri. So yes, I feel like you covered everything really well. But one analogy, because I love you, you used a couple and I think sometimes those are helpful. One analogy I use, and I would encourage any of you who are going to read this book or just any other personal development book or podcast, as you're thinking about transformation, liken it to any type of renovation. So...

Reese Brown (01:02:35.617)

Thank you.

Shannon Talbot (01:03:01.23)

Whether you've lived through a renovation or just seen one on TV, it doesn't matter, but it starts with a vision. So it starts with that beautiful, okay, where do I want to be in five or 10 years or one year? What does that look like? And then the next step in any renovation is the mess, the demolition, the breaking down, the hard times, the work, the things going off track or off schedule or off budget. And...

Reese Brown (01:03:15.489)

you

Shannon Talbot (01:03:31.63)

but we don't abandon a renovation, right? We keep going and we know that it's going to be worth it and better. And transformation is the same. And if you can get through to the other side, the vision may not be the exact same as how it started, but it's more than likely going to be better than where you are today. So just keeping that in mind to do the work and go through the mess to make it out the other side.

Reese Brown (01:03:54.113)

Hmm.

Reese Brown (01:04:01.825)

Absolutely. Well, and I think it's that's such a great mental image because of course no one would leave their house in shambles, right? Cause it's like, how am I supposed to live here? But it can feel when it's like your internal world, like this is not what I thought it would be. This is not what I wanted it to be. I need to turn around and go back, you know? But I do think once you start uncovering that stuff,

Shannon Talbot (01:04:10.094)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (01:04:30.017)

There is nothing but to plow ahead and keep going, but you're so right. It is messy, but that is, you know, part of, you mentioned chains, part of breaking free is breaking, right? You've got to tear some stuff down to be able to build up a stronger, more beautiful you. I think that's wonderful. Last question. What is one word to describe?

Shannon Talbot (01:04:44.206)

Yeah.

Shannon Talbot (01:04:51.502)

Mm -hmm.

Reese Brown (01:04:59.009)

what you are feeling right now, your current state.

Shannon Talbot (01:05:04.91)

So peaceful.

Reese Brown (01:05:06.401)

Hmm. I love that. Tell us why.

Shannon Talbot (01:05:11.758)

This is just a lovely conversation, it was lovely chatting with you, Reese. I love everything you're doing. I love talking about meaning. And I think one thing, if anything, our lives are full of such highs and lows that now I almost strive for more length. Like more the middle, like I want a flatter road.

Reese Brown (01:05:27.809)

Hmm.

Reese Brown (01:05:35.315)

you

Shannon Talbot (01:05:37.038)

And I want to feel at peace more versus, you know, the roller coaster. So I think that's you just you brought a lot of peace to me today. So thank you.

Reese Brown (01:05:41.633)

Thank you. I appreciate that so much. And thank you for your beautiful time and wisdom and expertise during this episode. For all of our listeners, you will be able to find Shannon in the show notes or in the episode description wherever you are listening, watching. The book will be linked down there. Website and socials will be linked down there as well. So definitely.

check out Breaking Free and check out Shannon's work. It is certainly worth it. And just thank you so much again, Shannon. Is there anything else that you would like to plug or send people to?

Shannon Talbot (01:06:20.11)

Thank you for having me, Reese. Yeah, just feel free. You can find out all my information, everything on shannontelbit .com. Link to the book there as well. But yes, would love for you to check it out and reach out to me. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to reach out to me.

Reese Brown (01:06:36.801)

Absolutely. Shannon, thank you so, so much again. I so appreciate it and have a fabulous rest of your Wednesday and I will talk to you soon. Yes, thank you.

Shannon Talbot (01:06:47.278)

Thank you so much.