Ouroboros: The Complexities of Relationship and Being in the Arena with Maya Francis

cheers to Ora Boris to Ora Boris I love that um last time we had what think we just had like celus white claws this time we're going it's 1: in the afternoon so we're doing soda also we both did have a bottle of wine yesterday last night that is also true so hey you know what a big part of making meeting is also having fun mhm and I've always said that and that's exactly what we did um hey we had fun we had fun and we lived and we laughed um we did laugh and we loved and we learned honestly we learned too I'm going to cry already all right guys that's the end of my podcast yeah bye you're gone done okay um well mayia welcome back hey hey for any new listeners this is our second episode of um Maya being on making meaning so it's her aobos episode which am I saying that wrong I believe it's oroboros but I've also heard people say oroborus so I I think it's one of those things that's like tomato tomato yeah exactly um so this is Maya's second episode and our first one like you just said we had seltzers so we felt as though we had to start the podcast was cracking cracking open a cold one even if it's just a soda this time true um but we're going to kick it off with the first question I always ask which is what's one thing you're grateful for right now oh my goodness so many things to be grateful for um I don't know well okay well obviously you already know what I'm going to answer because last night was so fun we had a girl sleepover and it was just it was just such a good Vib we watched the last trolls movie um if anyone is a trolls fan I highly recommend watching the last movie let us know in the comments down below yes also let us know if you are a trolls or a sing fan um cuz we have some riffs in our friend group about which one is better um and Rift is like like it's kind of tearing the friend group apart yeah like we honestly like might not be friends in the next year check back in for the next oror podcast in the year um where we're not friends with anyone anymore just because we'll update you on who is Team trolls and who is Team SNS yeah and let us know in the comments um post it on in stagram tag us tag tag coher collective in your stories about whether you like trolls or sing yes please do I want to know it'll be like really good data for us to collect I think it'll be an important piece of like human anthropology that we can look back on it's exactly what I was going to say like it's something in the future where like if people like dug like one of those time capsules up like that would be like find Collective like Instagram and be like oh my gosh the the religion of trolls versus the religion of sing and it's like cave drawings but of right now so that's basically just what happened like hundreds of thousands of years ago that's exactly one exactly but that's you know what that is and a

Robos dude you're so right about that thanks and I'm never I'm not going to say or oroboros I'm I'm only going to say or hey you know what I think that's allowed and I appreciate you showing up authentically is who you are thank you you're welcome um anyways segue uh we watched trolls band together yes we did and so yes what you're grateful for yes um and we also watched Monte Carlo and then we played some card games and we were just having fun and then we facetimed our guy friends um who are all on a bachelor's trip in Nashville right now and it was just so silly because cuz I don't know there are sometimes where I look at my friends and I'm like why are we friends like we are all such different people in like such inherently different ways and sometimes I get confused because it's like oh how could we all come together but then there are moments like yesterday where the five of us girls we were all piled on top of each other just like being silly and like on face down with the guys and then all five of them piled on top of each other on the bed and FaceTiming us yeah FaceTiming us and like they were all laughing like and we were all laughing and it was just so like silly and it was pure joy and it literally was pure joy and like most of us got headaches cuz of how hard we were laughing yeah not because of the wine we drank but because of the laugh definitely not because of that but because of the Laughing um and that was just so fun and so amazing so I think grateful for and honestly maybe I said this it was the same thing thing at last podcast um but I think that's really plant yeah but that's so goes to show that I'm always grateful for my friendships but more so just knowing that a bunch of different people can come together you may have a few interests aligned you may not but at the end of the day like if your friendship ascends that then that's like I said pure joy yeah that's how you feel and that was how yesterday you can find that Beyond difference is really powerful not to say that the difference isn't important too and like honoring that and recognizing that but also finding Joy amongst similarities is something that is really powerful and beautiful yeah I love that and I think that's something I mean honestly a lot of people struggle with that cuz I mean you have like relationships where people have different wants different needs different beliefs World Views paths yeah different everything and for some people they have no problems with that they are just I'll do it my way you do it your way we'll come together and we'll figure it out other people have really hard time getting past that yeah um I've never been in a relationship so I can't say that like I would or what I've done but if I would be with someone who had you know different whatever beliefs um I would like to think that I would be one of the ones who is okay with that and that just because I already live with that in my entire life um like all of my friendships most of the people that I love and hold so dearly to my heart have so many different beliefs and different likes and everything you know so yeah one thing that I I do want to cuz I haven't even asked the normal second question yet but I I think that this is really important so I want to continue down this train of thought for a little bit because I think that is something that I struggle with is the balance between being really okay with loving people and being really close to people that have different not even just interests but like truly like belief systems than I do and still being able to love them find Joy with them really value that relationship but then also knowing that there are these things that are very important to me that we do not align on and wanting to be someone who can look beyond that and still have a relationship is very important to me but at the same time there are certain values and beliefs that for me are non-negotiable in certain ways where like for example like feminism we'll just use that oh my gosh no Maya's making fun of me but we both consider ourselves feminists I would not be able to be in a relationship with someone who didn't consider themselves a feminist however I have friends that don't consider themselves feminists and that is something I struggle with in that like I still love these people I still find a lot of Joy with them we still have really meaningful connections and share other things but that is something that I think about and like of course it's just one example of a belief or a value and like I don't think one thing is a reason to not you know still be able to hold a deep relationship with someone it depends on how big you hear what I'm saying yes it also depends on how big that one thing is because it really could be something like another example racism like if someone that is one thing but if someone is inherently racist and and isn't an example would be like if someone is inherently racist they aren't racist to you but they say racist things about other people or maybe just like in passing and they're just racist to others that's maybe even ignorantly right yeah that's maybe well not maybe at least for me that's something where that would be one thing where I couldn't get past because my identity revolves around the fact that I'm not white so it's like hey that's well we're not going to do that you know so there's sometimes where I'm like okay maybe there is one thing where everyone has their own prerogative you know like it depends on how you feel about it but I agree with you for the most part like got to work past the differences but also I I feel like for us at least with our friend group um we have all of these differences and we are aware of that but we don't really talk about it like we we are never I think it works so well for us because we never get into those difficult conversations because I think we all know in the back of our minds that we probably wouldn't be friends if we truly dug deep into who we are as which people to me is deeply problematic actually because I think you're 100% right that with a lot of people that are like some of my closest people if we did actually get into that there would be things that are non-negotiables for me right yeah and it would be hard to look at them the same way well even right and so that is something that I think about a lot in terms of like knowing who I am as a person and that my values and like literal belief system about making meaning is entrenched in digging deep right and like well entrenched digging deep that was good language um but it's like am I then not like practicing what I preach by not doing that and by letting not kind of putting my head in the sand because it's like it's something I'm aware of but like this one area of my life not being something you know what I mean yeah I I don't know how how do you come to terms with loving people and letting other people love you that you know aren't aligned with you in that way what how do you handle

that

um I feel like a lot of it genuinely unfortunately is looking past the differences and like I said not having those conversations with people unless I feel like it's really necessary yeah um like if it gets to a point where this person is you know like blatantly saying things to my face that I don't agree with then I would have issues with that and I would go about it like that but for the most part I feel like when I hear someone say something that doesn't align with my beliefs I either I'll say something to them then you know me I'm a pretty outspoken person I don't shy back from confrontation that's not me um um but I do know when to hold my tongue yeah um and there are just sometimes where I don't know maybe I'm too tired to get into a fight or at some point also it can be exhausting to always have to defend your ground and to fight what you stand for which I mean is exactly what we should be doing you know fight the good fight um I'm 100% for that but at the same time it's very taxing take care of yourself in order to be able to do that totally 100% um and also a big part of it for me is that I know that that person's probably so set in that mindset and in their beliefs because obviously that's their belief system why would they not be you wouldn't call it your belief system if you weren't right um so anything that I say wouldn't change their mind anyway or I mean it could but uh it just depends on the person like you know sometimes you can tell person you're talking to it's going to go yeah um it really just depends on the situation yeah um but for the most part I I don't know I definitely make my I make my thoughts and my opinions and my voice and everything known yeah everyone knows how I feel about everything um and I openly talk about things and if someone wants to come up to me and like ask me a question or like say something to that I'm totally down for that but I I've I've never like gotten into like a yeah bad conversation with someone because of that well and I do think that something that's really important is like the concept of love it's like just even if someone does not in my viewpoint love other people the way we might love someone else right yeah for whatever reason that does not mean that person is now Unworthy of love and un of themselves right just because someone else may not be the most loving doesn't mean that you are ever Unworthy of love so still being able to like hold that relationship I think is really important while like recognizing that there may be some growth but it's like also it's just complicated and hard but I do think it's almost like there's this line between trying to be as loving as possible that dips into like allowing and I think the thing for me that I think about is like anyone that I'm friends with but especially a significant other which both of us are single right now but I think it's more true of a significant other that you're like building a life with but even with friends and stuff it's like when you have a deep relationship with someone it is communicating at least I believe that communicates to the rest of the world I have my stamp of approval on this person and so it's kind of that is one thing for me that's like well if I espouse this one belief but this person that I love that everyone knows that I'm so like intimately connected with does not share that belief is that hypocritical or is that trying to love people well o what do you think do you or it's probably it's complex and gray of course but 100% yeah um like literally everything in this world right um I don't know I mean I genuinely think that that is it's a little bit of both yeah um at least that's how I would feel it's a little bit of both cuz obviously like I said I'm I try not to be judgmental um unless you're a really bad person then I'm going to be like hey I don't want anything to do with you fair enough exactly um but for the most part I would say that I think that's loving someone despite you know their their ailments and their odds and yada y yada um but I think it's it becomes hypocritical if you don't try to at least help the person get some knowledge about um some stuff like about the other side or whatever yeah um I think there are ways that you can have like an op open honest relationship or friendship or whatever with someone who is completely different with you um as long as you know you're not both either head strong people like two headstrong people being like you know constantly bickering about that and just like being able to have a normal conversation with someone I think that's hard people um people are very passionate obviously I'm a very passionate person I hey hands down literally we played that game yesterday um it's like stir the pot where you pull a card and then you have to say like the person's name who like you think is the answer to that question and then there's a coin and you flip it and it's either like tell or don't tell and then you like tell the person like what the question was and our friend Kate pulled a card and she said Maya 1,000% Maya immediately and I was like I was like what is it she got tell and so she told me and it's who has the worst temper and I was like what that's crazy he said me said who me I don't have here hey here's the load on I don't have a bad temper I'm just a passionate person Maya is still thinking about that card Maya has not let it go that's so funny Kate altered my my brain with that one um no I just I I'm very um I'm yeah like I said I'm very passionate about things and um I think that that is both a good thing and can also be a bad thing um yeah well it's it's totally a strength but I think that even goes back to like your greatest strength is often your greatest weakness too right like I 100% oh really I I think it was like Miss Hart my acting teacher coach life Mentor oh my God she told me that yeah shut up um but like my favorite person in the world M heart um the one the tattoo yes yes um I have a tattoo of something that Miss har told to me the very first day that she met me because it means so much to me and she means so much to me um but yes I remember the first time that we were she is a very intuitive person and acting is obviously like a very emotional um process and the first time we were like talking about like your power and how you bring yourself to your roles we were talking about this and she was like your greatest strength is 100% your greatest weakness and I was really thinking about like well what would I say my greatest strength is and I really think it is like empathy and being able to like really step into other people's shoes and like think so much about other people first but that is such a flaw in me too in the sense that it's like calm down like not even okay case in point brunch this morning we got breakfast and we were putting dishes in the little like when you clear your table away and you have to put your dish was next to the trash can kind of thing and there was this man waiting patiently behind us and he was very kind and I was like oh my God I'm so sorry I need to get out of your way and maa's like why are you freaking out it's okay and the guy was like it's fine and REE was like oh my God I have to move and he goes it's fine like it's okay and like we have because just like this idea that I was inconveniencing someone else is like abhorent to me but it's like on one hand I love that about myself but on the other hand that makes life a lot harder for me and for a lot of the people around me too you know so it's like it it's both of these things and so I think with the like being really passionate or even The Temper thing it's like I don't have a temper at all and I wish I did you know it's like I wish sometimes that I I don't think you should say that you don't have a temper at all you have emotions mine's like hang on no no but say when I okay when I think of the word temper I don't think of like having like a temper tantrum or like being like a like bad person or something like that I think of the word temper as having maybe like extreme emotions or having like heightened emotions that I really do um which and also I mean everyone feels emotions whether you repress them or not right um and I would say that everyone has a temper because everyone lashes out at something or feels excited about something or cries at something or laughs at something really hard something that makes you cry like you know there are so many something always Taps into the extreme dream that we all experience yeah for sure so this is all really interesting and beautiful she's like anyways well I want to make sure I ask the second question that I always ask at the beginning of every podcast even though we're like not at the beginning anymore but the second question I always ask is what is your story and of course we already got your story in the first episode so with um oroborus or oroboros or whoever whatever you want to call it episodes I want to say what is your story since we last met how has your story changed how have you changed what would the story over the last year look like hey do I got a big story do I got a tale for you um all right well the last year has definitely been a lot of self-growth I'd say love that a lot of things have happened um yeah well I think the first kind of main thing that rocked my world was that I got laid off from my job um which I was talking about on my podcast on my podcast I was like wait you have a podcast you did not tell me this I don't the last one that we did um not my podcast on my podcast my episode on your podcast um I spoke about my job and how it was a little bit like tough getting used to to it just you know being an adult while also still living with your parents and having to go through all that and now I don't have that anymore now I am very much unemployed um cu the job market sucks yes um so I I got laid off in November too so it hasn't been that long but um I truly it really broke me it made me really sad um because one I loved my company so much um I had such a great connection with so many people there yeah um and I feel really lucky because I feel like that doesn't happen that often I was really scared of going to a job and just kind of getting lost in the world and no one would know who I was um but I ended up making a big name for myself and everyone everyone really knew who I was um and we all still keep in touch today which is great um but that was really sad like losing that sort of yeah honestly it was like my little work friendly that I got to see like every day that was really fun um also that just being like the first job I've ever had yeah um kind of crazy just to just like all of a sudden it's done all yeah and all of the work that you've been doing and everything is just gone gone poof you can't do it anymore and like they locked me out of my teams like literally like 10 minutes after I got laid off so I couldn't even like message anyone goodbye like oh okay bye um and I just Irish goodbye everyone and but it's like crazy that it is literally they say you spend what like a third of your life sleeping and then a third of your life at work like that is so the time you're awake literally 50% of that is spent at work with those people like that is a lot of time to be doing that just like action wise but to be around anybody like we spend a lot of time together not as much as people who work together true you know and it's like that is you get close with people quickly yeah doing that and it is a work family and to all of a sudden be like feel like you've lost that like that's a huge shift yeah I was really sad I was crying for a really long time understandably also as like a hard worker and someone who values your work like it it's I wasn't expecting to like it too which is what happened I I was never really excited to have a job which I I'm still not excited to have a job cuz I'm going be working until the literal day I die so I'm not like leaping for an opportunity right or I mean I am someone hire me if you want um I mean yes I am please hire me um but you know what I mean yes yes um so I kind of I was really sad for a while probably like a few weeks um but then I was able to get out of that mindset grief yeah yeah also that yeah like grief like losing that's exactly my therapist said like losing um losing like my friends and being able to just be out of the house for that long was so great too and like actually like have something to do one routine and also that yeah yeah and also it completely ruined my sleep schedule now I wake up at 8:00 a.m. for no reason oh no your sleep schedule's so horrible um so I I just had to really it boiled down to the fact that one this doesn't Define who I am yeah um the only thing that defines me is whatever I want period # period ashlay # period # slay ashg girlboss hash hashtag yeah hash International women's day was this week so shout out to all the women um yeah shout out women yeah and I hey what was I

saying hey what were we even talking about um the grief of it was after that bro it's been so long since I talked about grief it's been so long since I talked about grief but the only thing that defines you is yourself oh yes yes yes yes yes yes um yeah so I realized that losing a job or losing anything really doesn't Define you yeah um even though there are so many people people out in this world who would say that well the same way having it didn't Define you losing it also doesn't Define you exactly um it doesn't make me any less of a person yes it does make my bank account a little less but hey but also the number in the bank account doesn't Define you exactly the only the socioeconomic structure that we live under demands that we use money as currency to live to pay for food to pay for housing all of that good stuff that has nothing to do with your personhood or your inherent worth exactly neither does anything it's like if you place all of your value in external things when you lose them you do lose your value for example in the stock market crash if all of these people Bankers everyone who put all of their worth in money you had no control over the stock market crash in 2008 that's true yeah you're going to say that your worth completely left just because of something that was completely outside of your control like that's not a healthy way to view yourself and I unforunately I feel like a lot of people probably think like that and that's yeah I I don't think that changed um I think it's just just that the way the society that we live in unfortunately um you think it's like socialized into us to think of material Goods as personal work 100% 100% I mean if you see the way that people treat hom people on the street I mean that that kind of sums it up right there they have all of their I mean homeless people usually like you'll see they have like giant camps or just like a giant tent around them with all of their personal belongings because all of that material things it still means stuff to them they just don't have anywhere to put it and they still take it with them and yet some of them they don't have access to you know physical material things so and I don't know I just feel like with the way that our society Works everyone is and I mean hey I play right into this too it's hard not to when it's all around you yeah everyone always wants like the new best thing like when something goes viral on Tik Tok automatically it's sold out like everywhere in Target and CVS everything mean the Stanley Cup craze like yeah like everybody wants everything yeah well you know what's so interesting about that is that even in like we live in a western Society but even within abrahamic Traditions there is that are very Western and westernized it's like there are verses about how wealth is not worth and the one that sticks out to me as someone who studied the Bible a lot but of course no longer considers myself Christian is it is easier to for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven yeah and yet so many people are obsessed with the idea of wealth and it's

like hoof indeed so obviously being laid off is tied into the concept of like material Goods defining your personhood mhm it's been about 3 months since then what do you feel like those last three months without having that daytoday clock in clock out kind of thing like how has that changed your approach to daily life um well like you said I did lose that routine um I feel like ever since I graduated from college you know when you're in school and you have school for the rest of your life you're just doing the same thing basically every single day there's a set routine you go to class you have home with your friends you do homework tests yada yada yada and then you graduate and then suddenly it's all over yeah and I feel like since then I haven't really felt that sort of like stability and that just something that keeps me grounded during that time I just feel like having so much I mean obviously free time is good I'm not complaining cuz like I said I will know I'll be working for the rest of my life so I'm grateful for the Break um but having this much free time um is a little bit what once was comforting to me is now a little bit Discerning um I feel like I need to be doing something sometimes just also a fault of mine is that even though I really really try hard not to compare myself to anybody else because I think that comparing yourself to anything in anyone is so detrimental for your mental health for your emotional health for everything involved um but unfortunately you can't help it when there are you know people in your family or just external sources who are always reminding you of something that is better or how you could be better or how they wished a better life for you and all these different things which just makes it seem like everything that I've done up until this point is just so worthless like it makes it seem that everything that I've been through and how hard I've studied to get my computer science degree and working so hard in my job and all those things when people say that just because I got laid off and that's all they see so they're like oh I spent all this money for your education and what a waste you know that's such an interesting point too because I feel like it's so easy one personally for us to do this to our ourselves but also to do to other people like you were just saying to focus on the next thing it's like okay well that happened but now what are you doing and it's like okay yeah but also we can sit and bask in the growth and the learning for a little bit we can sit and rest in joy and rest in the rest right like I think it's it's really easy for us to look at I mean I'm just going to use it as an example because we're talking about you but is someone who got laid off and is taking a break and guess applying to jobs and doing all of the things that like you're supposed to be doing but for it to be like oh well why aren't you hustling more why aren't you grinding why aren't you blah blah blah blah blah because you don't have a job you don't like what are you going to do but and just because it's like we we feel such a need

to have some sort of like safety net and security and stability that not having that like means immediate fear but once again that comes with being in the society because like we said you need a job in order to have a place to live in order to get money for food and all the necessary supplies um everything it boils down like I I I truly I feel the sense of urgency yeah because it is at the end of the day for your well-being so that you will prevail and be able to come out of this capitalist Society where it is very cutro if you don't have that sort of money you know you're not going to be able to live the way that you want to totally or the way that you see you know well um and I think it also goes back to tying your Worth to other things as opposed to just existing as Who You Are are like maso's hierarchy of needs right like the base one is shelter food like basic survival needs right not having that is not a flaw within a person you know yeah it's not your fault right like nine times out of 10 you know maybe unless unless sometimes there could be cases where you know it can be right yeah but so it's like to to note the nuance and complexity in that but you not having the things you need to survive it's like I don't think anyone wants to not have the things they need to survive no one wants that and like maso's hierarchy of needs is not maso's hierarchy of value of worth of being a good person it's of needs what you need to be able to be a person and if you have something that you need to have to I guess this gets into a deeper like value system but it's like if there is something that you literally need to survive I feel like it's kind of a a self diminishing cycle of like you have to work to get what you need to survive but you have to have what you need to survive in order to work it's like okay well how do you get started within that without having a platform to push you up first and and literally I'm like so both of us obviously had a really great platform in our parents and our family of origin in being like raised in very well-off families that can take care of us like and having that privilege it's like okay well that's how we were able to do that and get into it but how do you continue doing that and people who weren't given that it's like at one at some point you have to be able to break that cycle in a way that other people don't yes exactly and that's how I feel like you know like you said we were both raised in very privileged families and now that it's getting to a point where I just turned 25 and like I was saying after 26 I'm can no longer be on my parents insurance and all of that stuff so now it's becoming um well it already has been very real but even more so that I really need to just get my life started um and like I said that sense of urgency not just to not just to you know like live on my own and be able to afford rent and all that stuff but just to be able to be by myself in my what I can still say maybe my early 20s I don't know mid 20s um but I just feel like there's so much more left of me to discover and I'm being hindered and held back by the things that I'm comfortable with that I'm afraid to leave um but I need that I need that um that self-growth journey and I think that's something that people don't often go through enough which is why they do have you know they attach themselves to these physical and external things yeah external things because they aren't able to reach into themselves and just like I said be comfortable with yourself yeah um well and you know what I there's two things I want to note because the urgency piece it's like I think it's understandable to feel a sense of urgency to want to like you said go on that self-discovery Journey but I think a really big part of that is also finding Grace for yourself and still allowing the rest like even if the rest rest was forced upon you through a decision that you did not make you know it's like take advantage of the of what's put in front of you and I don't think that there is anything wrong with being like okay these are the cards I have been dealt how can I make the best out of them while turning it into something that I would prefer it be you know so I think that letting yourself rest as hard as is when you're getting these messages of you should never be resting if you don't have a job is like a very common message it's like everyone needs rest work is not the only work that we do um and actually I think work is probably the least important work that we do as human beings there are some people who are listening to us right now that are quaking cuz there genu there's so many Workaholics that work they live and breathe work I know people who will say at their offices until like 1 2 a.m. in the morning just cuz one they have nothing better to do and they're just that's the only thing they think about unless like like me you're trying to make work your life's work right but I don't think it has to be that but also this is a healthy type I think there there can be like a healthy a healthy way of you know making work your life which is I think what you're trying to do versus the unhealthy way which is what I mentioned like just diving head first in everything else doesn't matter um and you're always just going to be like work work work because in the end what happens when that works leave work that whoa what

happens what happens when that work leaves you you have nothing yeah again but yourself and like I said if you don't have that if you're not able to be comfortable with yourself and just listen to your own thoughts and listen to your body um you're not going to get very far yeah period yeah other thing that I really wanted to mention you saying that you really wanted to get your life started I don't want to undermine that feeling at all however I think it is so important that we honor the work and progress and growth that has been happening our whole life because you have worked so hard to be where you are and to be the person that you are and your life is on one hand just getting started but on the other hand has been eons in the making and I I just want to underline that that I think it's it's I know I do this to myself and I'm sure there's people out there that do that that too and that's why I think it's important to bring it up bring it up this conception that there is like the real world somewhere waiting for us or that like well Welcome to the Real World bucko that like I think so often young people's experiences are undermined and are like coming of age story is really undermind or over romanticized too it's like both of those things happen where it's like oh you hit 30 and your life is over until you're old and you're in a nursing home and then your life is really over right it's like that's most of your life there's still like your 20s is not everything while at the same time how many people like both are like these are the good old days like you got to live them while you got them that will also be like but you know nothing you're a child true and it's like both of those things are deeply unfair one because it's like we're all still learning and growing of course I don't know anything just like you don't know anything it doesn't matter how old you are you can still learn right and then two it's like okay yes I am a kid these are really great years I'm so glad I'm learning and growing at such an accelerated rate I hope I do that forever I do want to enjoy it but it like let's level that out a little bit you know and I think that that's something that I struggle to remind myself of and like even though it does feel like like this postc col young professional age feels very much like okay I'm getting my life started I'm taking care of myself I'm doing these things it's like yes that is absolutely entering a different phase but there has already been so much growth in work and experience that I think anyone who has made it to this point should be proud of I 100% % agree with that yeah yeah well and it even makes me think of um the podcast interview that I did with rain Knox MH when she was obviously her experience is like eon's different right very different life experience um but she was saying that like statistically people who have been through the life that she had been through don't survive don't make it wow and obviously we are not in that level of trauma or like life experience so I don't want to minimize that but I do think holding pride and confidence and self-love for what you have been through even if you are aware of how much more there is to go is part of The Growing Experience too of taking the time to rest pat yourself on the back and sit in the joy of I have done something yeah and I that's something that I genuinely like since I've been in therapy for however many years that's something that that's probably the main thing that um I've been working on or that we've been working on together is just one um recognizing that all of the things that I have been through or that anyone has been through no matter what it is that's trauma and it affects you but you can't again you can't let that Define you um because after a really traumatic thing happened to me in college that was how I defined myself I was I was so broken and there was nothing that I could do to get me out of that mindset just because it was very traumatic yeah um but after working on myself and getting the help that I needed once again again if you need help either ask ask for it or seek it out yourself otherwise nothing's going to change if you don't do it for yourself um and just learned that like I said my identity is so much more than this yeah um and it's the same same kind of thing that you said where it feels like it felt like the end of the world it felt like oh I'm not going to survive this and I know for like there's so many stories out there where there are so many women and men who don't survive that kind of thing yeah um so I mean that's very true but at the same time I was able to come out of that a thousand times stronger yeah I was honestly to this day I'm still impressed with how I have came to terms with that and with anything that's happened to me um and a lot of that has to do with like I said the help and the work that I did on myself and there are a lot of people who say that that therapy or talking about your problems is absolute BS yeah and you shouldn't do that because it creates more problems it carries on the problem it makes you think about the problem yada y yada I think you know what video I'm talking about and um I have to say at least for me I feel the complete opposite about that yeah um whenever I do go to the is probably the only time that I really give myself the chance to think about my problems fully otherwise I am constantly living in the realm of just emotionally stable without having to think about anything that could come crashing down until I'm in a place where I'm comfortable enough to talk about it I mean I can think about my emotions I can think about anything um but talking about it out loud that's not something that one I feel comfortable telling my friends and family cuz I hate being a burden that's like my number one thing is being a burden to someone so being able to have that third party person who's so removed all all that person is there to do is just listen and give you advice if you need literally you're paying them to do that you can't be a burden it's it's literally their job yeah but then there are also people who say oh it's literally their job so they're just like they don't even give a [ __ ] and I'm like on one hand like yeah like maybe there are some people who are like that but at least my our therapists are not like that any any job has Crooks yeah any type of group of people there are bad versions of yeah period that is literally anywhere including therapists you know it's like that is just of course people just criminalize the the mental health industry just because of the way it's been treated throughout history people just don't talk about it enough it's really easy

to it's always easy easier to poke holes in someone else than to reflect on and fix your own D why you aren't doing the work exactly it is always easier to say no than to say yes

and actually it's almost like you know when like in high school there was I just remember teachers saying this of like for the kids that cheat or like find a way to cheat or like write the answers on the inside of your water bottle label so you can see it but the teacher won't see it or like find different ways to sneak things in to cheat it's like if you spent as much time studying as you did trying to figure out how to cheat literally like you would be fine and to me it's very similar where it's like how much energy are you spending on trying to find reasons to tear someone else's work down if you spent that same energy trying to improve yourself where would you be and I'm not saying that we shouldn't think critically about the methods and systems that we use we Absol absolutely 100% we should be questioning everything and there is always room for improvement I would love to see like there are plenty of therapists that aren't great therapists you have to shop around until you find the ones that work and like there's different types of talk therapy there's Psychotherapy there's CBT there's I think truly very lucky I think absolutely we got to really great therapists and I think finding ways to continue to improve therapy and improve those systems absolutely we should do we should be doing but that work is not done in when someone comes to you with their lived experience of this has helped me this has made me stronger to say well there's statistics that say actually it doesn't it's like okay maybe there are some people that it didn't help therapy isn't for everyone and whether that's because they didn't get matched with the right therapist or their work really was about just moving forward and like that is what they needed in whatever space it's like that's I'm never going to look at someone who has given something the old College try and they are like it is just not for me and be like okay you're wrong because it worked for me it's like no yeah you know yourself better than anybody if that does not work for you find what works for you but how dare someone poke holes in someone else's work when they have found what makes them a better person exactly instead of you trying to find what makes you a better person that is not okay with me that is so not okay I agree and there are so so many people that are like that yeah and it's incredibly sad and you see that a lot in relationships to too um especially I feel like with parents a lot of times if you grew up with traditional parents where you know the dad's the man of the household and all that yada yada yada um a lot of the times it can lead to unhealthy and unbalanced family Dynamics where um you know the dad and the kid start having a little Alliance and they make fun of the mom and then like the mom is on the outside and it's like a oh like you know one of those Dynamics and starts to pke hes in one family member so then everyone else starts seeing that family member as you know their personal punching bag yeah um I feel like I've seen that happen a lot with a lot of my friends and just people outside um and it honestly just makes me sad for the people who feel like they need to poke holes because you can just tell that there's truly something they to through they just maybe one don't have the means to or they're just mentally not capable yeah to think about it and to actually sit down and be like this is my problem it's not anybody else's yeah the way I react on the outside is not going to fix the way that I feel on the inside and you know what everyone's journey is their own so this isn't to say like if you're if someone isn't there yet I I don't I I feel like I got kind of angry there it's like this isn't to say that like I'm mad or angry at that I think the thing that just deeply bothers me you're allowed to be annoyed about that though is yeah that's a great Point um but is

when people who this is what it goes back to it's the Brut a brown man in the arena if you are not in the arena I don't want to hear it if you are not in the arena doing the work your opinion cannot matter to me it it just physically can't because until we understand the experience of trying to show up every single day to better ourselves to be the best version of

ourselves what you think about my journey I cannot have time for yes I I you just can't could not relate to something more that is genuinely so all that goes to say you know like being laid off and all the various things that have happened this year with family and friends and all that stuff um I've one come to be extremely grateful for everything that I do have um I find myself saying thank you for or just I'm grateful for just a glass of water um I'm grateful when my lights turn on when I flick the switch which I'm grateful that my toilet works yeah um that I have toilet paper um I just feel like there it kind of goes back to what we were saying you know people with their material things and you know like we all play into that obviously um but people forget to really soak in the moment and appreciate stupid but appreciate the little things because it's so true I mean when you think about things in perspective which I hate saying that because I hate being like when someone says something oh like I have this issue oh well think about the the kids in in Africa don't have food yeah like one of those like obviously yes we should be thinking about these things because if you're if you're living in a world where all you see is just your comfort bubble that is just a world of privilege and that's not an okay way to live in my opinion and there is one of my favorite books is Perks of Being a Wallflower and there's a really beautiful quote in there it's in in epistolary format which is like letters but it's all like di diary entries and it's really beautiful if you haven't read it it's a quick read I won't say it's an easy read but it's a quick read um watch the movie the movie is also great um Logan lurman love of my life um Logan lurman Ally obviously obviously um but there's a really beautiful quote where the main character I forget his name but um he's complaining about something and his dad says like well think of the starving kids in Africa and in the diary it's like you know there is a lot of suffering there but that and I can acknowledge that suffering and how awful it is but that doesn't make my feeling or experience any less valid and it's like you can hold both of these things right and have room for that and yet still let that serves in a as a reminder of gratitude yes um to talk about the why water thing as well I just think this is so interesting cuz I read a study about this and I don't know how proven or if it's like had been replicated yet but I know there is at least one study that has proven this which is interesting but do your own research you know I'm not I'm not a scientist I don't pure review things um but it's super interesting but that when um people pray meditate or have a moment of gratitude before drinking water or eating food it actually changes the molecular makeup of water huh and so when you eat that food your body is better able to digest it so how did they prove that I I don't know but I will research I need to find the article cuz a friend sent it to me and I was like what this is crazy but it's like magic is real U but it's like literally gratitude is not only like there's so many it's like the Arthur C Clark thing any sufficient science will be indistinguishable for magic right like there are so many things that we know to be true like a gratitude practice like having Grace like positive affirmations that we know makes us feel better but now we're just getting these understandings as to why like why is it been a part of culture and religion and spirituality for eons to have a prayer or a moment before you eat because it feels really good and it's like wo there you go it's just another thing of like that and to take it back to kind of what we were saying earlier that like it is always easier to say no than to say yes it is also ineffably hard to hold Faith whether that be for a religion or for Hope in the future like however you define faith for yourself like fa faith is textbook defined as a belief in something without evidence yeah so whatever that looks like for you the the piece without evidence is what makes it difficult but I think the really powerful part of faith is that it guides you to live your life to be the evidence of what you believe in exactly that's exact and that's how I feel about going to therapy and being able to be emotionally more emotionally mature than I would say a lot of people are age or just people that have been through other things that we have I feel like just because of the work that we've done and I like that is something where I take that what I learn out of therapy out of whatever situation I'm in and I'm taking that with me yes it's for me but I'm also saving that to reject the rest of the world um to tell my friends to post on my Instagram story like I'm always wanting to amplify yes amplify educate and uplift the voices and the stories that I think need to be heard and also the advice and there are just certain things that you know could be helpful to someone and I'm always thinking about in some ways like my empathy is not in any way as strong as yours I barely have I barely have empathy at this point um I think you an extremely empathetic person thanks um but I think that's like one of the main things where I feel like that's like when I really think about other people is when it comes to knowledge about something yeah um whether it be helping yourself or helping someone else I think that that is a really big part of who I am yeah is that I like to learn so then I can help others learn education is such a big piece of that right and talk about a privilege education is such a privilege facts oh my God such a privilege there's so many countries girls can't even go to school I know so I mean well I just remember in

college like the very first time that I skipped a class and I was like oh it's fine it's just class everyone skips class all the time and I was just in a meeting for some like leadership thing that I did outside and someone was like you know I almost skipped class this morning but my alarm went off and I said you know education is a privilege it's a privilege that I'm here it's a privilege that I get to go to class so I pulled my butt out of bed and went and I was like she got me I was like that hit me man and I never skipped a class again even if I did Zoom instead of going in person I was always in class I never skipped class that was the only time I ever skipped class cuz I was like it is no matter how tired I am no matter how shitty I feel there is someone who either didn't get the scholarship I got like can't be here is has sick family members and so they can't be in school can't afford it like I have parents who were able to help me pay my way through college like all of these things or not help me pay my way literally paid my way aside from like the scholarship I got

but like that that it's just gold to be able to do these things and so aside from all of that also people who women that can't go to school yeah crazy okay to be mindful of time final two questions okay in light of our conversation with everything that we've talked about is there anything that you would like to to clarify bring up say throw out there this is space for anything that we haven't touched on or that you want to further anything that you feel like you need to say this is space to do that um I think I just really want to reiterate the point

that it truly is a privilege to live um and that genuinely we should be taking things yes people like to look into the future I love to think about things that could happen in the future and also thinking about the past too that is very natural thing for people but I think it's very important to focus on the present and where you are in the moment because at the end of the day that is what you're going to think about like at brunch we were asked what what was your favorite thing that you did this week yeah none of us could remember anything that we did during the whole week besides yesterday that's so true like all of us were like uh what did we do like what that and obviously it's hard to remember what you've done every day because there are so many days and you there's so much that just happens it's too much for your brain but I think that there should be something said to the fact that you should be grateful at least at the end of your day that you got to live a day that you got to wake up and you experience everything you experience that day whether it be bad or good or whatever obviously it's easy to get into the Rhythm and routine like I said routine of every day um and I think that it's just a helpful thing for yourself um to be able to sit back and like we said be alone with your thoughts be comfortable with that and honestly like play Hyo Buffalo by yourself sometimes I'll do that at the end of the day and if no one knows what higho Buffalo is basically you say we do it sometimes in our friend group um go around the table and someone will say their high of the day what was the best part what was the worst part of their day and then Buffalo is just something weird or silly or funny or whatever happens you could also do like what's the Rose Thorn bud and the rose is like a good thing the thorn is a bad thing and Bud is like something you're working on oh I've never heard that I like that one too um but honestly that's something that I Do by myself just because I just feel like I need to check myself there are lot of times during the day where you know my my temper can get the best of me and I and I I find myself being either ungrateful or wishing that I didn't have this or something like that but then forcing myself to be like I said grateful and understand that this is a true privilege and a lot of people have forgotten that that life is worth so much more than just going out and getting a Stanley Cup for $50 at the grocery store while there are so many people just struggling so hard to even get water um and I just think that people really have to think about themselves and about the path that they're on and just really do a recheck um who a lot of people need to do a recheck in my opinion um with the way that this world is going unfortunately um but yeah let's do a recheck yeah let's do a

recheck I think that's really great I'm really powerful last question what is one word that describes how you feel right

now I

feel it's not necessarily a feeling it's more of like I guess the the term Saunder saering I'm thinking about all of the other billions of people in this world and how everyone has their own life their own pets their own house their own whatever their own feelings their trauma their favorite movies their favorite music there something that they like to listen to while they drive there's something that they have their own favorite catchphrase I say busy someone else has something that they say all the time um and that is forever will be so crazy to me and so unfathomable that we are all made up of the same thing but just so inherently different which is what makes this world a [ __ ]

Collective hey and if that Collective could live more coherently I think that this world would be a better place it truly would I think so too Maya I I am so grateful to be alive and to be alive in the same timeline as you my dear dear friend I love you so much I love you thank you for why am I being weird thank you for being here I love you I love you