Alcohol and Self Worth with Coach Marci Rossi

Reese Brown (01:16.594)

Marcy, thank you so much for being here and sharing this time with me this morning.

Marci Rossi (01:18.158)

before I scratch my nose and adjust my bra and everything else I have to do. So, actually.

Reese Brown (01:45.67)

So grateful to be having this conversation with

Marci Rossi (01:49.038)

Me too, thanks for having me, I'm excited.

Reese Brown (01:51.056)

Absolutely, I'm so excited. First question, just to kind of set the note for our podcast. So it's one thing you're grateful for right

Marci Rossi (02:02.348)

Right now, I actually this morning got a text message from my cousin asking me to be the goddaughter of her second child. So I will say I kind of beat her into it a little bit, just kind of constant, hit, nudge, nudge, you better sort of thing. But it actually went through. And so, yeah, I'm really excited. I feel very honored that she's going to allow me to kind of take part in her daughter's life. So yeah, thank you.

Reese Brown (02:18.122)

short.

Reese Brown (02:28.286)

That's beautiful. Congratulations. What a huge honor. I love that. Second question that will really be jumping pad for us to crack open our conversation is what is your story? Obviously, that's a big question. Whatever you feel called to share in this moment is

Marci Rossi (02:50.478)

Okay, well my story has a lot of pieces and twists and turns, I would say. So I started out this high achiever in school. Like school came really naturally to me. Sports did not, but school was my jam. I was straight A student doing really well. And so I knew that was like big things were gonna be my future. So then I went to business school when I graduated, graduated early. I then went to law school.

and I became a certified attorney. And then from there, went into the corporate world. I was actually working at Ernst & Young, one of the big four accounting firms for a few years. I loved what I was doing, but it was just a, there was a really lack of work -life balance, right? It's a, it's a corporate world. It's a lot of high pressure. And I wasn't, while I was good at it, I wasn't, it wasn't making a difference.

So, or at least not in my opinion. And so I pivoted actually into public libraries and worked my way up through public libraries, which again, I also really enjoyed, but not that perfect fit for me because there is a lot of bureaucracy in politics kind of in small government. In this, in this midst of all of these different changes, I was drinking a lot to cope with stress in particular as a lawyer and in the corporate world.

There's a lot of stress. There's a lot of high stakes. And in my attorney journey, I was representing victims of domestic violence. So these are very high stakes situations. And it's really hard for me not to take those personally. And so to cope with that, was relying on alcohol. And yet, I wouldn't consider myself an alcoholic, right? So I wasn't getting arrested. I was doing just

fine at work, even when I pivoted into public libraries, I got promoted five times in five years. Like everything was going really well externally, but at home, it was really hard for me to say no to that drink, right? I'm also very passionate about the healthy lifestyle. And so it was kind of in contrast to other things that I was doing. I'm trying to work out, I'm trying to eat healthy, and then I was drinking. So I would come up with these rules to say, OK, this needs to be limited.

Marci Rossi (05:00.458)

only on the weekends or only after five o 'clock or only X, Y, and Z, only to break those rules later, right? And that's where I found that I had this dependence. So I actually, didn't find out just then. I actually tried to dry January. This was going to be my cleanse. I was going to give up alcohol for a month. And that first time I think I ended up drinking maybe two or three times, but one of those was just like a really hard day at work. And another time it was a friend's birthday. We're going out, so like those didn't count.

And then I did dry January, you know, year after year after that. And only once was I able to make it the entire 31 days without drinking. And I was miserable. I was thinking about drinking every single day. And so that to me signaled that this is a problem. It has more control over me than I would like. And in order to pivot, I knew I needed help. When I looked at the resources for help out there, I saw rehab, which I didn't need. I didn't need to be locked up. I just went 31 days without a drink, right? I could do it.

I also didn't have $50 ,000 to throw on it on a extended time away from home. Then the other option was AA in my opinion, and it didn't sit right with me. I told you I wasn't an alcoholic, right? I was doing just fine externally out in the world. It was just at home that I seemed to struggle. you know, there's a big emphasis on letting go and it just wasn't very empowering feeling for me. So I knew that wasn't a good fit. And fortunately, through the power of Facebook ads,

I was introduced to a coaching program to help change your relationship with alcohol. And it was so transformational for me that I ended up becoming a coach myself. And I have been working to help women change a relationship with alcohol. And in doing that, I have started my own business, which I absolutely love. spring in that business school, entrepreneurial spirit, and just have a lot of fun with that. So I've now pivoted into helping women with their own small businesses. It's just been...

A lot of twists and turns, but all of it I feel like has been leading me to where I am here today.

Reese Brown (07:00.819)

Thank you so much for sharing all of that. There is this beautiful thread throughout your story. I mean, even in you talking about like starting as a high achiever in school and like being at this accounting firm and trying to find this kind of thread of purpose. And then when you realized that you were struggling with something, taking that and using it to kind of propel purpose forward.

Why do you think that you have this kind of desire to do something purposeful, even in that switch from corporate life to public libraries to having your own business? It's all really motivated by that purpose piece. Talk to me a little bit about

Marci Rossi (07:47.286)

question. I think it comes down

want to say the value that I see in myself, right? So if I am not doing something to make a difference, then what am I here for, right? I'm not a very spiritual or religious person. So for me, at the end of the day, if I'm going to be here and I'm not trying to fulfill this purpose to try to help somebody, if I'm not trying to help, period, then it's just a purely selfish existence. And so like, what's the point, right?

I'm not gonna be able to change the entire world, but I can make a difference for somebody. And that for me validates my existence essentially. It's a little heavy, but like that's just where it is. It's why else would I be here if I'm not gonna help somebody else? It's just too, it just feels too selfish to me. So however that looks, know, whether it's representing victims of domestic violence, even in accounting, was, you know, turning it into a purpose of I'm helping to ensure that there is accurate information so that

people when they're investing can make wise decisions. It's not going to change one's life, most likely at the end of the day, but I feel like I'm contributing in some way. And that just makes it so much easier to get up and go out the door in the mornings, especially those days that you don't want to when you feel that there's a reason behind what it is that you're doing.

Reese Brown (09:06.908)

Absolutely. And I love that you're mentioning that this is kind of rooted in just your own personal morals and values, not being an especially spiritual religious person. Where do you ground those values in? I think it absolutely is possible to not have a spirituality or religion and still have that really strong ethical code. Where do you think that stems from for you?

How have you kind of crafted this code that provides that motivation?

Marci Rossi (09:42.338)

You know, I took a philosophy class in college because it was a liberal arts college. We have to kind of experience a whole bunch of different things. Hated it. I will say I hated it. But they have all these talk about kind of moral codes. And I will say that mine is based on my own sense of justice. I think that's what led me to being a lawyer. And it's also what led me to leave the field. So I have a really strong sense of what is fair.

Reese Brown (09:59.272)

Hmm.

Marci Rossi (10:08.93)

what is equitable, what is right. I don't know that it's based in some specific moral code other than just my own and what feels right to me. But that is where, that's what motivates a lot of my actions. In law, the purpose behind it was to do what's equitable and what's right. And even in law, there's a lot of politics, as we can see from.

judgments that come down from the powers that be, right? So that was really hard for me to, in law, even just working with domestic violence victims, actually in particular, one of the clients that I represented was a woman who ended up killing her husband, but it was out of self -defense, right? He was holding a gun to their baby's head, like years and years of trauma going through this. And she got this incredibly harsh sentence because there was this vision in our world that when a woman kills,

There must be something seriously wrong with her. There's men, yeah, of course. The men are most likely going to be the murderers. But when a woman does it, she must be so depraved, not thinking about the situation that she'd been put in through years of systematic abuse. So that's where that sense of justice, it's really hard for me. I can't force people to open their eyes and see that what you're doing is wrong. She was just trying to protect herself. So that sense of justice, was hard to sit with me. But again, going into the library world, this equity, want.

equal access to information. want people to be able to have the resources so that they can make the best choices for them and further their lives. So yeah, it's coming just from what feels right to me, but it definitely justices something that guides really all of my decisions and my actions. Yeah.

Reese Brown (11:51.332)

No, I love that. I similarly am a very justice oriented person. And even from a very young age, I've always struggled with, well, that's not fair. And my dad always has this refrain, well, life isn't fair. And I'm like, yeah, totally. But then I was like, okay, well, then what can I do to make life more fair? Because if that is the problem, then we need to make it more fair.

Marci Rossi (12:00.17)

Yes.

Marci Rossi (12:05.344)

Yes. They must teach that at parenting school somewhere.

Reese Brown (12:19.402)

for everyone. And I would have to imagine in your work now around alcohol and dependence or the relationship with that, has to be a lot of, I mean, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would imagine a lot of like this equity, social justice piece in there as well because of different societal and cultural ripples. Have you experienced that to be true?

How does the justice piece connect to the work you're doing now?

Marci Rossi (12:50.424)

So I haven't necessarily been experiencing it firsthand, but from what I've kind of witnessed and heard and read about and learned, there is sort of a couple pieces that play into that. One is the alcohol industry traditionally was something predominated by men, right? So it was men that were drinking and women were kind of taking care of the homes, right? And the alcohol industry realized that that is an untapped market. It's the same thing that they've been doing also

third world countries as well. They're realizing there's an untapped market there. So the alcohol industry has kind of taken on what I would consider predatory behaviors in intensely marketing to these places. And so you have countries like India where traditionally they are not big drinkers that are now have a growing alcohol problem where people are actually making their own alcohol and you're starting to see the consequences of that because there's profits to be made at the end of the day.

For women in particular, that mommy wine culture, I'm sure you've seen somewhere where they have those comically large wine glasses or mommy juice or all these things. They look like funny memes that your friend came up with, but these are things definitely created by the alcohol industry in order to pull them in, in order to prey on their imposter syndrome, their feeling of not enough, this lack of worth, you know, to say it's okay that you can't do it all instead of changing.

Reese Brown (14:01.202)

Mmm.

Marci Rossi (14:14.316)

these expectations that have for women, you can just drink to deal with that, that lack of living up sort of thing. so there's a lot of pieces that play that, come into it. And that's why I think that getting rid of alcohol can be one of the most empowering things that you can do. You're not, you're no longer a victim to a system that's set to keep you down, right? If you're drinking and you're at home, you're not improving yourself. You're not, you're not, you're, you're no longer willing to accept all of the inequities in life instead of just drinking to ignore them. So, there's a lot of,

Reese Brown (14:17.789)

Hmm.

Reese Brown (14:32.052)

Yeah.

Marci Rossi (14:42.862)

and I think one of the most empowering things you can do is to say that I'm not gonna be a pawn anymore in this game.

Reese Brown (14:49.166)

Hmm. I love that. And it really is so empowering. Not only, mean, in that realization and saying I'm not going to be a pawn, of course, extremely empowering. But then even that first initial step of realizing, this funny meme that's being reposted on Facebook or Instagram or wherever is actually a trickle down effect of a way to

keep me in this system, in this place that is easily controlled. In your story, you mentioned being a very high achiever, bright future ahead of you, good at school, certainly relate to that experience. And I think we're also seeing this cultural shift of the classic high achiever, gifted and talented kid, especially for women, growing up hitting this kind of like late 20s, early 30s and being

like crashing, right? Like I used to be able to do all these things and now I'm not. Talk to me about your relationship there because when you were just talking about alcohol, you were saying that it's a way to kind of cope with this feeling of not good enough. And I do think that perfectionism and this classic high achiever -ness stems from that same feeling of not good enough. What is that piece of the puzzle?

Marci Rossi (16:17.996)

definitely say that that not good enough is often one of the key pieces underlying that alcohol, that alcohol use. Initially at the more of a surface level, we're looking at what it is that you're drinking for, you're drinking to relax, you're drinking to celebrate, you're drinking to network, etc. But underneath all of those, essentially, there is this that lack of not feeling enough of not feeling worthy, right? I'm drinking

to feel more confident because I myself am not confident. I'm not worthy enough for people to come and talk to me. I don't have enough to say, I can't justify my existence, et cetera. So I think there's a lot of that. I will say I'm not kind of an expert in this area, but what I've seen essentially is there's women, the expectations on women, whether it is from just essentially the patriarchy or just what we do to ourselves, there is these standards that we've

created that are impossible to live up to that don't seem to be reflected in the people identifying as male. know, like they've I don't know what the exact status, but they've said something like when when there's a job application out there or job posting out there, men will apply if they can meet, I think, 50 or 60 percent. And women, it's something somewhere like 90, 95 percent. Right. We just don't feel like there's enough that we're we're constantly having to prove ourselves. And I think it's it's interesting with that alcohol piece because

We don't actually develop the opportunities to really thrive when we are drinking, right? We're drinking to suppress these feelings of not being enough, but all it's doing is perpetuating that, right? Like if it's that confidence thing, if we feel not confident or not very interesting to talk to, we're not gonna develop what are essentially skills, skills that can be learned because we're not having to test it, we're just escaping it. So I think part of it is just not realizing the role that we play and kind of keeping ourselves locked in this

that said, I definitely still suffer with, you know, imposter syndrome with not feeling worthy with all these kinds of value related things. It's just, it's something that's definitely deeply rooted in our society. And if I can do the tiniest piece and helping women realize that they're a lot stronger than they give themselves credit for that they don't eat alcohol for absolutely anything. Then I think I'm, I'm fulfilling my purpose

Reese Brown (18:29.918)

Yeah, I adore that. And I think that that is so true. This idea of alcohol being a social lubricant is rampant in that, it'll be so much easier to just have a glass of wine and then I will be more interesting or easier to talk to or if I am at a networking event and

I'm trying to subtly, subconsciously impress, but also in the boys club nature of lot of corporate and business worlds. I've even found myself like, I'll order an old fashioned instead of a white wine, to kind of play into that game for the social currency of what that is.

I would love to hear more about, because you mentioned like this really fulfilling the purpose of helping women recognize this and the role we play in our own perpetuation of the cycle. What is your approach look like? Someone comes to you. How do you begin kind of unraveling this narrative?

Marci Rossi (19:46.008)

For sure. So I will say that obviously everybody's journey is unique, but there are common threads that I see kind of over and over again. What we do is together with me and my clients and I are, we look at the beliefs that we have because my approach takes the T -far cycle, right? So we look at thoughts that lead to our feelings, which drive our actions, which lead to our results, right? So we have to start with that thoughts piece. We have to start with what it is that we think and believe about alcohol and understand

how that is driving the actions and results that we're getting. For some of those pieces, it's simply a matter of dispelling the myths. For example, the alcohol helps me relax. When you look at the actual science, it does not, right? Alcohol increases adrenaline and cortisol. Over time, people that drink regularly have higher base levels of cortisol. So even the smallest thing feels overwhelming when you are drinking regularly. And this is something I can speak to personally.

I would have times where my anxiety would get so bad that I would hide under my desk, couldn't check emails, couldn't answer the phone. My husband would have to screen things for me because in my head, everything was just going to be so much worse than it was. And I can tell you I haven't had any of those related anxiety attacks since I quit drinking. My stress level, obviously I get stressed sometimes, but not nearly to that level because my base level of what is a stressor is so much lower than it was when I was drinking. So sometimes the science can come about that. Alcohol helps me sleep.

Reese Brown (21:10.346)

Hmm.

Marci Rossi (21:14.03)

Absolutely not. It's going to knock you out, but you're not going to get any REM cycles. Right. So, it's there's, I have not found an article anywhere that says alcohol is going to help you sleep. you Google alcohol and sleep, all of them are going to be in the negative for stress. Sometimes they, can kind of, they, can interpret the results the way they want. think that's something to, to recognize when we read these studies, there was one study. That's the study of studies. going to back in, I want to say 2014 that found over 13 ,500 studies.

related to the effects of alcohol were funded directly or indirectly by the alcohol industry. So in interpreting these results, it's important to kind of keep an eye on who is benefiting from the conclusions that we're making. So sometimes the science is enough to say, that's just not what the science says. For example, another one is the living longer, right? The resveratrol or alcohol helps your heart or this, that, and the other. I am seeing all the time studies coming out and news articles coming out saying no amount of alcohol is safe.

Reese Brown (22:02.077)

Mmm.

Marci Rossi (22:11.276)

Now, that being said, if you still want to drink knowing the facts, then more power to you, but there's no power to you if you don't know the facts, if you're blatantly being lied to, right? Some of those, I can't disprove scientifically. I can't say that you are X percent more confident when you have a drink than when you're not. What I can do is help you realize what that belief, how that belief makes you feel and therefore your reactions, right? If you say, I cannot network successfully or at all without a drink,

you are essentially saying that the drinking makes you better, right? Which means you are less than without it, right? And how does that make you feel? Like knowing instead that maybe I'm not as confident now because I need to build up that skill. You can build up a skill. Anybody can get better at doing something if they work at it long enough, right? So that's the more empowering approach that I tend to take is really taking a look at those specific beliefs that we have. Alcohol helps me celebrate, network, relax, have fun.

party, whatever that thing is, and realizing what it's actually doing to our reactions and do we like the way that it's making us feel at the end of the day. Because I personally don't need yet another thing telling me I'm not enough, including myself. So if I can find a way to let that go, it's time to let that go.

Reese Brown (23:25.586)

Wow, the quote of, I do not need another thing telling me I'm not enough. There is such a strong narrative, especially for women, like has kind of been a comment that there are a conversation of that, that women are continually told you're not enough. And that's, see so many industries that profit off of this, right? The beauty, hair, makeup, clothing, fashion, the diet, yes.

Marci Rossi (23:40.706)

Yep.

Marci Rossi (23:52.578)

diet, everything, mean, it's, yeah.

Reese Brown (23:55.06)

Well, and one thing that I've actually been considering a lot as two professionals in this field is the way the self -care industry even profits off of how can you be better? What do you need to do to be the best that you can be because you're not enough right now? And how can we change our language around this to say you are enough right now? But that doesn't mean that you can't continue to improve and grow, but not you're bad, so you need these things to be.

better that you're not enough. We're starting enough. That should be our baseline. Wow. That is just so important. And I mean, I hadn't even thought about that in relationship to alcohol. I'm so fascinated with the people that you find coming to you as well. Do you find that the women who are coming to you are like, I'm ready to make a change with alcohol and that's how they're kind of stumbling upon you or

Marci Rossi (24:27.916)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (24:53.726)

Do you find that you're meeting people and it's a slow process of them recognizing that alcohol may be an issue that they do need help with or some third thing that probably is somewhere in between, right?

Marci Rossi (25:10.222)

Yeah, I would definitely say it's a mix. do want to preface this by saying that I don't work with heavily addicted women, right? There is, and this is something that I let all of my clients know. alcohol is one of the few drugs, and alcohol is a drug. It's not drugs and alcohol. Alcohol is a drug, full stop. But alcohol is one of the few drugs that can kill you when you stop, right? It's a very small percentage. It's like 10 % of the heaviest drinkers.

But I'm not out here telling people that, just quit and everything's going to be fine, because I recognize that some people are physically dependent and that giving up suddenly can cause strokes and even death. So the people that are in my wheelhouse are not that physically addicted, where greater support is needed. This is more of a kind of a coaching empowering conversation for people that are just like, I don't think this is serving me anymore. So with that being said,

The people that come to me come to me in different ways. I have had clients sign up because my message seemed to hit them at the right time. And they're like, yes, I'm in, like, this is what I need. I've also had people sign up for different things that I'm doing and then effectively ghost me. Now I don't take that personally because when I look at my own journey, I mentioned multiple dry January's where I'm like, okay, something's got to change. And even from that dry January, I actually signed up for a program in November of that year.

there was nothing, there was no rock bottom moment. And I think that's also very important to clarify that you don't have to hit rock bottom to simply decide that you want better for yourself. And so nothing like that actually happened to me. It just hit a point where I was, I was sick and tired of it. You know, it just wasn't, I didn't want to do this anymore, but it took that time. It took that time from recognizing I had a problem to actually being willing to do something about it. And so a lot of people come to me in that middle phase. They may have a night where they're like, yes, I'm ready to do it. And then the next morning, as I've done many times,

said to themselves, it's not that bad, it's fine, I got this, it was just last night, whatever, I'm not gonna do that again. So I think what's important to recognize, think loved ones want to know, I've gotten questions before about how I can help someone kind of get to that point, and I wish I had the answer, I don't have that answer yet. I don't think there's anything that I know how to do to force someone to get to that point where they're ready, if they just have

Marci Rossi (27:28.152)

decide in their own time, right? It's really for any kind of treatment. If you're talking about someone who's depressed, it's almost impossible to get them to just, they have to decide on their own, right? I've been that depressed person. They have to decide on their own that they're not willing to accept this kind of life anymore. So I don't have an answer on how to get someone to that point. When they're at that point, then I'm ready to go. They're ready to go. But so often people dip their toe in, okay? I think I'm ready. And then no, it's actually not that bad.

because society is telling them that the only way to be happy is to drink. The only way to fit in is to drink. The only way to X, Y, and Z is to drink. And they're not that bad. They're not an alcoholic. It's not a problem. It'll be fine, et cetera, et cetera, whatever excuses that we have to make, which at the end of the day, any reason that we drink is an excuse because we are ingesting a poison. And this is coming from someone who thought she loved drinking. I fully believed that I was going to be the person in the retirement home where people are going to be sneaking me drinks because

thought I loved it. And I say that because on the other side of this, place I never imagined I would be, I also never imagined that life can be this rewarding, exciting, fulfilling, happy, any of those things. I thought I was happy, but I did not know what happiness was until I realized that there's, don't, there's not something that I need to get through life. I don't need anything. You know what I mean? Like I don't, I don't need a substance at least. need, I guess I need food and water and I need my husband, but

Reese Brown (28:48.252)

Hmm.

Reese Brown (28:52.426)

Sure.

Marci Rossi (28:53.42)

Generally, I don't need this additional substance to make me any better than I am.

Reese Brown (28:57.948)

Right. Yes. And even that goes back to the, you're starting as enough, right? Which is just, I feel like a refrain that needs to be said more and more and more. A piece of this puzzle that I'm personally very fascinated by, because I'm close to this period of my life. Have you experienced or have any opinion or research

anything about the effect of college on this relationship with alcohol because I know that the like judgment piece is so big in the even if I want to stop drinking even if this is no longer serving me I am the only one at this tailgate that doesn't have a drink in my hand I'm goody goody not fun stick in the mud even if

having a great time, right? Do you have any thoughts on

Marci Rossi (30:00.738)

to you, I will say that my target audience tends to be a little older because it is a really tricky time in there. Speaking from my own experience, I went to one of the most Greek universities in the country and it was also one of the most affluent universities in the country. And so not only was drinking culture very heavily, but they had a lot of money to actually do it. That tends to be something that stops people is just the costs associated. But when money is no object and you can get charter buses to bring you to and from the bars.

it becomes a whole new world. We did have a one bar party where there was a camel. This is this kind of money that they had, because it was an Arabian night. They had money, and we were going to be able to party there. That said, I will say that there's been very encouraging trend in the younger generations that they're realizing that alcohol is, quote unquote, their parent's drug. And so the alcohol use among Gen Z is much lower than it is for the older generations.

Reese Brown (30:49.098)

Hmm.

Marci Rossi (30:56.834)

doesn't mean they're not doing something else instead and finding other ways to quote unquote cope. I say that because cope means to deal with successfully. And I think escaping in any form is not dealing with successfully, it's pausing. But that being said, alcohol is quite dangerous. So if people are gonna find other alternatives, I'm not that upset about it. But yeah, in college it is very hard to.

choose a path that's different from everybody else, that is the time you want to fit in. It's high school 2 .0, right? It's high school with more money and more freedom and less parents. So it can be really challenging to forge another path. And this is just coming from someone not in that space and who probably wouldn't be listening to me when I was saying this. But there is something to be said with not being the one that jumps off the bridge when your friends do it too, right?

Reese Brown (31:44.488)

Hmm.

Marci Rossi (31:45.486)

If for no other reason, one in five, I don't know the exact number, but somewhere around one in five women are sexually assaulted on college campuses. And I want to say 80 % of those are alcohol -related. I don't know the exact numbers, but it is that kind of dichotomy where it's like, this is happening, and it's happening because of alcohol. So I can't tell you the number of times that I walked home alone in the dark, and fortunately, nothing ever happened to me. Like, I am that very rare person that I've put myself at risk.

Reese Brown (31:59.498)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (32:11.167)

Right.

Marci Rossi (32:14.872)

far too many times and happened to get out of it. But there's no reason for the number of times that I put myself at that risk. So that's another piece. mean, yeah, you can want to fit in, but you might also not want to be at these increased risks for sexual assault, for overdoses, for all of the negative consequences that come with this. I think that's with every choice that we make in life, there are consequences. And for young people, especially remembering that those consequences are real.

and do occasionally happen, it can be really hard. But I think there's great power in deciding for yourself what's the best decision for yourself, especially knowing that the sober curious movement is growing. It may feel like everybody is drinking, but not everybody is drinking. Even before the trend started going down, I think only 70 % of Americans over 18 were drinking. So you're not talking about everybody doing it. It feels like it, but it also is okay to.

Reese Brown (32:45.042)

Mmm.

Reese Brown (33:06.868)

Wow.

Marci Rossi (33:11.49)

find a new crowd to actively search out a new crowd. And if you go on Eventbrite or Meetup or whatever, you can search for sober activities, things that are happening, to kind of find that new crowd that's going to support you. Because as they say, you're like the five people you spend the most time with. So if you want to be that frat boy, camel party kind of person, I you can surround yourself with these kind of people, or you can decide that you get one life and it's up to you how you choose to live it. And the people that

Reese Brown (33:14.014)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (33:39.433)

Hmm.

Marci Rossi (33:41.358)

care about your health, that care about you, aren't going to pressure you to drink just to justify their own drinking behavior, which is really what it is at the end of the day when I've been that person pressuring to drink. And it's because I was insecure with my own drinking. If I were secure, I wouldn't really care if you're drinking because it doesn't really matter, right? So recognizing that a lot of it comes from other people's own insecurities. you have to live with you at the end of the day. You have to make your own best choices.

Reese Brown (34:09.064)

I think the piece about justifying your drinking is so vital, right? That it's like, if someone else is making this choice not to, what does that say about me that I'm unable to, or that I do want to drink? And that kind of spiral, and that leads to a lot of other, like you were saying, risky behaviors and why we're seeing, I you mentioned being at an extremely Greek university. When you were in college and

behavior around drinking is also heavily related to hazing and incidents and accidents and horrible, horrible things that happen because of that and this pressure around it to kind of justify these behaviors and the risk kind of calculation of this, especially for young people. I do think when we're younger, we have this sense of invincibility, like, I know it happens, but it's not going to happen to me.

Yes, I know that you can be an alcoholic, but that's not going to be me because I'm just doing this in college right now and it'll change or I'm going to walk home alone. But it's like I have my wits about me. I'll be fine. Right? These kind of the justification that goes along with having to hold the cognitive dissonance of all of this is really important. One thing I did want to throw out to this, the sober or just

more thoughtfully drinking movements. I do, I have started to see more and more and more, especially among my demographic, which I think is really exciting. And even so many restaurants have mocktail menus now that's really exciting. So you can like still have a fun drink, but not have to sacrifice something that is important to you without getting an iced tea or a soda. You can still get something really fun.

Marci Rossi (35:43.266)

Yup.

Marci Rossi (35:56.227)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (36:00.874)

One thing that I also wanted to ask you about is when people come to you, so you're kind of finding these people that are having made this decision. This is a habit that I am ready to actively interrogate. What is something that you wish that clients of yours or people that are actively ready to kind of make this next step? What's one thing you wish they knew before they came to you or started on this journey?

Marci Rossi (36:28.466)

Just one. Okay, there's a couple. I'm going to preface this by saying, there's a key one, but first and foremost, I think there is a significant lack of real information out there. There's just a mass amount of misinformation and disinformation. You even our alcohol bottles at the bottom, they'll say, don't drink when you're pregnant, don't operate every machinery and may cause health problems. May cause health problems. Pisses me off.

Reese Brown (36:29.866)

You can go into as many as you want.

Marci Rossi (36:56.27)

Alcohol's been a confirmed carcinogen since 1988, meaning since I was born, alcohol has been known to be a carcinogen and not like a, you know, it can cause cancer. It's at the same level as radiation, asbestos and tobacco. We all know that tobacco causes cancer and yet somehow with alcohol, it's probably a little bit off. Even with breast cancer, I think three drinks a week raises your risk by 15%.

And yet they will put those little pretty pink ribbons on our our white bottles insane insane to me. So I think a basic level of information of what alcohol does can be really empowering. And that way you're making informed decisions. I think informed decisions, someone who's so keen on justice is really important. Again, we all we all make risky decisions all the time, right? We make you some of us

We'll eat fast food. go skydiving for my birthday one year. We make risky decisions, but I can tell you, I know all the risks of skydiving because I had to sign a four -page contract saying I will not sue you if I die or get maimed. I don't have that with alcohol. I just think it's fine as long as you're not an alcoholic. It might hurt your liver if you do it too much. And then stop. That's all we know. I think the other really big piece is that alcoholic is not a real word.

It is not a medical diagnosis. It hasn't been since 1980. They look at a spectrum of behavior and most people would fall on minimum that mild spectrum. you look at the questions, most of us are drinking more than we started and most of us have had nights that we've forgotten, right? So that's it. You're in the mild right there. And that's not, so it's not so damning. It's not so you're not so us and them type of thing. think alcoholic is a really, really problematic word. And again, kind of going to a point I mentioned earlier that you don't have

hit that rock bottom. You don't have to be an alcoholic to say, I want to change my habits. I want to change my behaviors. I want to do something healthier, spend my evenings in a more productive way, what have you. So I think that's a really big piece. And in tied to that, there are options for making different choices if you need support. Some people are able to just put down the bottle and never pick it up again, just simply knowing that it's not doing them any favors and taking that critical look, which so few of us do. We just.

Marci Rossi (39:09.87)

keep doing without really analyzing our own behaviors. For some people, that's enough. For other people, they need more support. And there are support options out there. In terms of my strong feelings about the word alcoholic, just to kind of elephant in the room, Alcoholics Anonymous has helped a lot of people. And it's definitely a valid option for people. think my personal, what doesn't work for me in the group is the focus on behavior.

Reese Brown (39:37.372)

Mmm.

Marci Rossi (39:37.438)

And as I mentioned, kind of with that T -far cycle, if you're just looking at the behavior, those thoughts and feelings are always going to be there. And you're always going to be feeling like you're giving something up, like you're missing out on something. I can tell you right now, I do not miss drinking. There's not a time where I'm like, I just wish I could. I think people get that impression when I tell them I don't drink. They feel a little bad, like, is it OK if I drink in front of you? More power to you. I don't care. I don't miss it. So I think when you can kind of remove the

thoughts and beliefs that are driving that behavior makes it so much easier. You're not an alcoholic for a life. You may have had a certain set of behaviors and you don't anymore. I don't believe that you can narrow someone down to a set of behaviors. I used to crawl, believe it or not. When I was one, two years old, I was crawling. I don't crawl anymore. So I don't identify as a crawler, right? I used to drink. I don't identify as an alcoholic because I used to do one thing, right? So I think it can be quite problematic. And that just means that there's other opportunities if those don't sit well with you. If they do,

Reese Brown (40:09.363)

Mmm.

Marci Rossi (40:34.85)

They can be supportive and great and fantastic. If they don't, if you don't want to be penalized for being human and not doing things perfectly, I think other options can be a better choice for you. They definitely were for me. They are for the people that I tend to attract. so knowing that there are different kinds of support options out there if something doesn't work. mean, even honestly, even books, there are some fantastic books that can be really eye -opening and help you see some shifts in your behavior and really

help you look more critically at what it is that you're doing, those can also be enough. So there's a lot of options out there. I think in our society, we know of two. We know of rehab and we know of AA, or three is cold turkey, which is such a challenging thing for most of us to go about doing again, because we feel like we're missing something if we don't look at why we think we're missing something or what it is that we believe we're missing out on. So that I think is the really big key piece that there are definitely

different options out there. It's not just A, B or C, there's secret door to them or there's D, E and F. Lots of different choices for you to find support. If one or two of the predominant theories don't sit well with you, I think that's really key. But yeah, just if you start to look at what alcohol actually does, it does for certain cause health problems. It is not a may. We need to let that go. We need to be honest with people. We need to stop letting the alcohol industry regulate their own warnings.

I mean, just look at what they do when you fuddle. Like if you take Advil, my God, those side effects that they list in your Advil bottle are extensive. And for alcohol, we give them a free pass and it's just not fair. It's ridiculous.

Reese Brown (42:09.394)

Yeah. Well, and even the statistics around it being a carcinogen and encouraging breast cancer, like I no idea whatsoever. And as a young woman, it's like, why didn't I know about this? And it goes back to what you were saying about knowledge being power, right? That we cannot make informed decisions if we are not informed. And if after having that information, someone's making an active choice of

Marci Rossi (42:26.679)

Yes.

Marci Rossi (42:31.928)

Yes.

Reese Brown (42:36.414)

this glass of wine is worth it to me. It's like, at least you have the information and the knowledge before doing that. So is there any difference between what you wish you could kind of tell someone going into the start of this journey versus general public? If just looking at your average Joe, what would you like to kind of tell them?

Marci Rossi (42:42.094)

Exactly.

Reese Brown (43:05.02)

about alcohol if you could boil that down into just one bullet

Marci Rossi (43:11.436)

Yeah, so to your point as well, I also didn't know that alcohol was a carcinogen. I had no idea. I just thought it messed up your liver if you drink all day every day. That was the extent of my knowledge on it. So I think that is really important. It's just taking a look at the actual scientific consequences of drinking, reading things critically. I think all of this boils down to opening your eyes and being critical. Even when you're looking at those studies, there are studies out there

that'll say that actually moderate drinking is healthy or light to moderate drinking is healthy. And they conclude this because they have what typically appears as a J -shaped curve where unsurprisingly, if you're a heavy drinker, that's when you suffer the most consequences of whatever it is they're studying. And then the light to moderate is down at the bottom where they have the quote unquote best results. And then abstainers are actually a little bit higher. And so that's where you get that J -shape. The problem is in those studies, the abstainers are

It's not necessarily people that have never had a drink. Most often, people in this group are people that had to quit drinking because their health already necessitated it, right? And so you're saying, well, this person who doesn't drink anymore is not healthy. Yeah, because they drink so much that they're not healthy to start with, right? One of them was insane. mean, it was like the groups were that the light tomato drinkers were white males who made more money, who had steady jobs like, and the other people were not. It's just like sometimes

Having that critical eye and not blindly accepting everything that we're told. You we're in this culture of just constantly getting tidbits of information and reading the headlines. And if we can stop and slow down and actually take a look at what it is we're being fed and whether or not it makes rational sense to do something, if it makes rational sense to drink alcohol, to eat sugar, to sit all day, whatever the thing is that we're doing.

you know, if you have the information and you choose to do it, we all do things that are probably no one's perfect and no one has perfect health. We all do things that are probably not the best for us, but in most cases we know it. We know that not exercising is going to hurt us. We know that sugar at a minimum is going to give us cavities and it's probably going to cause a lot more issues. We just don't have the information around alcohol. And so when we stop and one, take a look at, I actually like this? Like, do I actually like spending my weekends hung over? Do I actually.

Marci Rossi (45:30.314)

Could I be healthier? Could I feel better if I stopped? We rarely ask that question because we just were on kind of autopilot at this point. And then when we start asking that question, we can dive into more information if we need more support on why maybe it's not the best choice for us. But opening our eyes and stopping blindly accepting everything we're fed and really being critical I think is key for anything that we do, honestly.

Reese Brown (45:52.542)

Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think this, I mean, the phrase you just use blindly accepting, right? There's so many hidden variables that studies, if we do not have that trained eye to look at it. I mean, I remember in my very first stats class, learning about these hidden variables and it being like ridiculously crazy things that you could draw conclusion that

makes absolutely no sense, but it's because of this very obvious other piece. And like you said, we like grabbing those headlines. I think the information that you're spreading is just invaluable and really important for people to be making active choices. One thing that I think keeps coming up in this conversation as well.

is the idea of feminism and patriarchy kind of impacting these decisions. Of course, you work with women specifically. Talk to me a little bit about that and why you are drawn to working specifically with women and the relationship between feminism and alcohol.

Marci Rossi (47:08.13)

Great question. the reason I enjoy working with women so much is that it's easier for me to relate. Obviously, I identify as a woman. And so it's easier for me to utilize my own experiences to help people through these different shifts. Now, one of those pieces that actually I'm missing on is I am not a mother. that is one that we kind of touched on before is a very heavily marketed demographic from the alcohol industry and kind of what that means. I think you don't have

relate to your client in every single aspect in order to kind of open their eyes to something. you know, for example, with that mother piece, a lot of those, it's kind of analyzing what this means for us and whether I'm willing to accept that statement. Right. So for for mothers that, they they'll have you they like, it's the most expensive part of being a mother is all the wine you have to drink and all of these memes that are meant to be funny. And yet what is that saying to our children about about mommy needing wine to deal with you and what kind of cycle are we perpetuating then by

sharing these memes and buying the funny glasses and t -shirts and whatever. So yeah, I think that there are unique challenges that I can speak to, perhaps not all of them, but just identifying as a woman that I can speak to for this particular demographic, I think part of it to, you you kind of touched on before with the boys club, right? You know, for women in terms of the patriarchy, like originally you weren't drinking and then drinking became a sign of

It was a sign of us gaining our rights. We can drink. We can drink like the boys. I can have my old fashioned and my scotch and my whiskey and I can drink them under the table. mean, when I would go out with my husband, we'd order two different drinks and they'd put the pink frilly thing in front of me and the big old beer in front of him and we'd switch when they would move because that's not what we had ordered. I was proud of my ability to hold my liquor, to be one of the boys. And so part of that again is trying to, quote unquote, combat

Reese Brown (48:37.039)

Ahem.

Marci Rossi (49:04.046)

patriarchy in a way that actually ends up holding us down, right? We are not going to be our most effective selves if we are hungover, if we're tired, if our cortisol levels are spiked, if we are literally damaging our health in the process. So I think a really great resource on this is Quit Like a Woman by Holly Whitaker. It's a fantastic book. If you and your readers haven't read it, it's just really fantastic. It really speaks to the predatory behavior.

of the alcohol industry and really why quitting is an act of feminism. is asserting your power. is, you know, that sort of thing. I think it's really fantastic. So it speaks to a lot of those pieces and she probably does a better job than I can clarify here, but yeah.

Reese Brown (49:50.31)

No, thank you so much for offering that. They're all provide links in video and podcast descriptions if anyone wants to check out that book. But this idea that even in drinking being a sign of freedom and a sign of empowerment, it is still upholding male as better or male presenting as better right that I'm cooler.

Marci Rossi (50:13.614)

Right.

Reese Brown (50:18.984)

because I drink brown liquor instead of clear liquor. I'm a cool girl when I can have a beer instead of a fruity frilly drink, right? And that is something that is absolutely perpetuated. And even in this kind of gaining of our freedom, there is the sacrifice there as well that it actually is holding us down. And I think we see that, of course, in alcohol. think it's a really,

powerful example to think of, across all sorts of things too, in the, you know, if a woman rocks a suit to a red carpet event, it is really cool. And I suppose that's slightly different, because that's more about androgyny and fashion. And that's great. So I can't really think of another good example. But how powerful is that? Well, this has been

extremely, extremely enlightening for me personally, I have to imagine for my listeners, and most of my listeners are probably a little bit younger than your typical client. But I'm hoping that in hearing this, you get to catch them young a little bit and just at least plant the seed and begin thinking about it and thinking about these choices we're making. And having that knowledge to make informed decisions.

Is there anything else in light of our conversation, in light of what we've talked about that you feel like we need to dive into, you would like to clarify, you would like to return to? This is time for you to share, add anything, your space.

Marci Rossi (52:03.156)

Yeah, I mean, I could talk about this forever. It's literally part of my job, right? So I guess in terms of kind of wrapping things up just in your point about the fitting in with this culture and drinking the brown liquor and try to fit in with male, this idea of this masculine being better, we don't have to accept that. We don't have to try to fit into something that isn't actively working for us. I believe that women are incredibly powerful. And if only we stopped holding ourselves

Reese Brown (52:05.011)

Hehehehe

Marci Rossi (52:32.418)

with stuff like alcohol, what we would be able to affect would be incredible. So I mean, we don't have to drink to fit in like the boys because we ourselves are so powerful that we can affect more change if we stop trying to essentially perpetuate what isn't really serving us and is definitely not made for us. I think that's really powerful. think in terms of your audience, it's encouraging to me to see that younger individuals are prioritizing their own.

mental health, their own physical health, they're not really willing to accept status quo and they're willing to take action. And so I think that's what this all kind of flows into is just recognizing how it's actually fitting into our lives, how it's showing up and what impacts it's having on us. And then what we're really willing to accept at this point, we've been really moving to just as a society, stop accepting things that are just not serving.

just not serving us. And I think this is a really powerful way that we can stop and kind of assert our own power and assert our own individuality, our own, our own choices, our own freedoms to say, I'm going to do what I want to do no matter what, you know, 60, 70 % people can drink, but I'm going to make my own choices because at the end of the day, like I'm here for me, right? You know, like I, like I'm my own, I'm my own best advocate. I know what's best for me. I don't have to simply fit in if it's just not serving me anymore.

Reese Brown (53:56.266)

How empowering and yeah, the just, we don't have to accept it. It's so great. Marcy, thank you so much for your time, energy, expertise and the work you do. It is so clearly needed and necessary. So I'm just so appreciative of you coming on the podcast, sharing this information that hopefully pushes the needle forward a little bit more every single day and

I'm honored that you shared your time with me and with my audience. If anyone wants to work specifically with Marcy or learn more about her life coaching and other offerings that you have, all of Marcy's information will be in the video description. You can follow her across all socials that you may have. Everything will be down there, so definitely go check Marcy out.

Is there anything in that regard that you would like to plug in addition to things?

Marci Rossi (54:59.776)

Yeah, I mean, I love connecting with people. I'm more than happy to answer any questions that people have. If you want to reach out to me on social, I'm most active on Instagram. I also have a course that I help people with, Change Your Relationship with Alcohol. So I know there can be a lot of shame and embarrassment when we can't drink like everybody else, when it seems like we can't do it and everybody else can, because that's the facade that we're all putting out there. We're all able to never have a hangover and drink like the boys, and it's fine. It's fine, right?

so I have a course the way people can kind of work through this on their own time and in their own, in their own aspects. But, but yeah, I just honestly, I love having these conversations. Like I said, I can talk to you about this forever. I can talk to anybody about this forever. So if anybody has questions, comments, concerns, like reach out to me, I'm an open book.

Reese Brown (55:45.002)

I love that. Well, Marcy, final question to just round out our conversation, add a little bow. What is one word to describe how you are feeling right

Marci Rossi (55:56.686)

My first word is excited. was actually my first word was hot because it is Texas and it's going to be 100 and something. But excited is really it. I get jazzed up about this. Like you can tell that my, energy and my excitement change when I start talking about things I'm passionate about. I'm passionate about alcohol, free living. I'm passionate about business. I'm passionate about the way they show up when you combine those two together. And I just, I it's something I can talk about all day, every day. It just gets me, it just gets me fired up, excited and a little hot, but that's okay.

Reese Brown (56:20.424)

I love it. Yeah. Well, thank you so much again, Marcy. This has been absolutely fabulous. Absolutely.

Marci Rossi (56:28.302)

Thank you so much for having me.