The Full Circle of Curiosity, Peace, and Service with Tommy Oakley

Tommy first and foremost thank you so much for joining me for agreeing to do this and the time and energy I appreciate app of course re thank you for having me absolutely um first question I always start with is just one what is something you're grateful for well today I mean I would say I'm grateful to be 25 yesterday was my birthday so we're yeah happy birthday why did I know that oh my gosh I feel horrible I'm not too open about it I tell many people but happy birthday thank you so much yeah so you know that's exciting it's it's always good to live one more year on this Earth and totally I feel like the the obligatory followup is do you feel any older which is such a silly question but 25 is actually kind of a quarter life exactly marker how does that feel so I actually had that exact conversation with my parents and my brother yesterday cuz I said I I'm 25 which by any means is an adult you know at that age I don't know you can rent a car you can do everything but I still feel mentally like 18 in many ways yeah and and physically yeah you don't really feel any changes it's just it's odd it's odd feeling like when you teenager like thinking about your late 20s thinking to be totally different but that's not necessarily the case and so yeah there's a little bit of a not a quarter life crisis but just some reflection totally yeah totally well and I do think there's like an uncanniness to that feeling where I I agree where it's like in a lot of ways it does feel like oh I could wake up and be 17 and feel very similarly but at the same time you look back on the last five six seven years and you are a very different person and like the things you've done are very different but also there's probably so many ways that you're similar oh yeah no that's very true I mean you're obviously way more wise you've gone through more experiences you've gone through you know School work life but at the same time you you have the same Curiosities you have the same enjoyments I listen to the same music I did back then I mean yeah and I love music so uh it's just it's weird you you feel the same but you know you just yeah you're wiser I guess that's the best way to put it yeah I love that so second question what is your story which is a big question but whatever you feel called to talk about is perfect okay there's a couple ways you can answer that yeah I you know uh don't want to take up all the time here uh it is your time take whatever you I'll just give it just a background about where I'm from CU I think that's a big part of who I am absolutely I think everyone has their Roots um I'm from Colorado originally so I grew up in a really small town there called Grand Junction it's about 50,000 people um and you knew everyone you knew everyone you went to school with you knew all your neighbors you know if something happened you basically the whole town KN yeah but it's funny and so I grew up there and and uh grew up Outdoors a lot and you know hiking fishing all skiing all of that um and then you know did that all through high school and then came down to Dallas for college and so in college you know there was a a discovery period I think where I didn't really know what I wanted to do you know combined with fact that I was just a fish out of water in this huge City learning like traffic City traffic that was one thing that just killed me at first and it was you know a combination of that and just trying to figure out what I wanted to do um that led me in college to you know go through school there I went to business school at SMU and then graduated and and now I work in a um a real estate firm that it's it's an investment manager and a uh resident presential rental developer and so what I do there is I I'm on the capital raising team so we're always uh you know doing a lot of work with investors you know we're traveling we're doing a lot of the honestly the stuff you do in school like you know PowerPoints Excel all that all that fun stuff and you know it's it's uh it does have its long hours at times but um it's something that I enjoy doing and something that I could you know see myself doing long term so I think at my point at this point in my life that's kind of you know I'm at a good spot I would say yeah I love that I think one thing that's sticking out to me about both your answer to the first question and in your story is this theme of curiosity because you were talking about how you know in some ways you're very much similar to who you were 18 and you have the same curiosity then as you do now and talking about like leaving a small town to come to a big city and not just like a bigger city where not everyone knows each other but one of the biggest cities in right our nation um well and like Dallas traffic is just unlike any other it truly is it's terrible it's the worst yeah um and I think that takes one courage and bravery but also a certain amount of curiosity to be like what is that like what is that experience what what am I going to be like there um but also with you you talking about like travel and wanting to keep doing these different things and potentially using your job as an Avenue for that what has curiosity meant to you over this kind of course of your life or what does it mean now I think it's great question I think curiosity at least for me has been the biggest driver for change um in my life I think a big part like what I talked about growing up in a small town there's so much you don't experience um but there is on the flip side there's a lot you do experience that maybe you wouldn't necessarily get in a big city but yeah it was just that drive to go into you know a big city where there's plenty of things to explore learn about um that's what really drove me out of you know not just the city but the state because I also wanted to come to Texas I was the first person in my family to come down here really no connections down here uh so it was scary uh but you know looking back I'm I'm so glad I did it I'm so glad that things turn out the way they did because uh I would say you know if I stayed back home it would have been a completely different different story different life totally yeah well and then what motivated you to stay here I feel like that is a common thing for people to go away for college and then find their people find their place and kind of plant roots down there um but yeah why why stay cuz you very easily could have been like cool I had this experience did it and I'm going back or I'm going someplace else else yeah uh I think there's a couple reasons I think mainly it's the people I think uh you know just forming that friend group down here and and which school gives you that friend group and um and it's also you know I did think about moving back after graduation but uh Dallas is a great great Market it's a great place to live yeah it's consistently ranked you know in the nation some of the safest and best best schools and uh it's just you know all those factors that you know you just kind of feel at home here after a while and I think that hit me hard especially living here after school so uh I don't really see a need to leave at this point yeah yeah well and I think curiosity so often I think the easy answer to curiosity is go someplace else when it's actually so much bigger than that right but it's like how can you find those little Curiosities throughout your day even if you're in the same room right it's like you can still find those things yeah that's right I I think it's also it's curiosity but it's also pushing yourself to try new things and just pushing your boundaries yeah um and being uncomfortable well and you also said that curiosity is the biggest driver of change and like pushing your boundaries letting yourself be uncomfortable why is that important to you not that I disagree I just want to hear more no I mean it's a good question too I think in many ways it's what makes life worth living I think pushing yourself um at least for me when I don't when I'm comfortable I kind of get sad you know you get into a lull state where you're just not much is happening and um you're just not challenging yourself and uh you know over time that can that can just be not good I feel like mentally so oh it doesn't you know there's a lot of ways you can push yourself um but I think if you know you have something like a hobby or or you know if you're teaching yourself an instrument or even learning on YouTube or something like that you can I mean just expanding your horis I think that is like there's something that just initiates and um in your brain and it just makes you just you know appreciative and and just makes you a better well-rounded person I would say yeah yeah so you mentioned playing an instrument and earlier you mentioned music being something that you're really passionate about talk to me about that what is music what role does music play in your so I've always I've always loved music um my my brothers gave me a hard time growing up just because I always loved old music I started out you know in Middle School listening to like only 60s music or 70s music which was lame back then but now it's really cool now it's now it's in style yeah right so uh lucky for me but uh yeah I I I loved music um to the point where I would just you know always have my earbuds in my old iPod just listening listening um and then it got to the point where I wanted to learn myself so I bought myself a keyboard uh on YouTube I taught myself where to place my fingers and taught myself songs I taught myself how to play piano by myself I did not know you taught yourself to play piano yeah and I still still practice as much as I can uh and it's it's something I you know it's one of those Hobbies that's always in the back corner um of my life and you know when times get busy I'm not necessarily playing as much but sure but uh it's a great release it's a great you know stress reliever um and so I I love it I I think that's one of those things kind of what I was talking about that you should always be pushing yourself yeah even if it's not you know it has nothing to do with you know my job or or you know what Ty what I went to school for but sure at the same time it's you know something that I love to do on the side yeah well and I think so often we do get in our heads that everything has to be about the one thing thing right that is the passion or the dream or the goal but it's like life is much more um complicated and nuanced than that but it's like there's all sorts of different things that contribute to a well-rounded fulfilled life and a lot of that I think different people have different takes on like why is a job important should a job be about passion should a job be about money is there a way to do both like who who's to say I think that's your own individual call to make um but I think being able to live this varied life with like I have this job that I am excited about that does bring me joy but also I want to teach my self how to do something else right yeah that's right so also one thing that I am very impressed by is that you taught yourself how to play I think most people even adults you know it's like they they want to do something it's like okay I'm going to go take a class for it or I'm going to hire someone to teach me how to do this why teach yourself instead of that's a great question because that's the same thing my parents always told me they say you can take lessons you can actually learn how to play piano um but I never wanted to because I I thought I wouldn't be able to truly play what I wanted to play if that was the case instead of be playing you know classical music where I wanted to Lear new songs that are coming out the songs that I like to listen to um and so I didn't want to give up that that creativity and freedom Factor yeah uh and so that's why you know to this day I cannot point to what note an a is on the piano or but but I can play you know probably 20 songs maybe 20 plus songs so that's crazy it's just one of those things I just for me it's just so freeing and I I wouldn't want to I also wouldn't want to make it be homework that I'd have to teach myself and learn this in front of the next lesson cuz as soon as you make something you know add structure to it and add deadlines I feel like you kind of take away some of the enjoying well that is why a lot of people are like well I don't want to do this as a job because as soon as I have a boss or I'm getting paid to do it it's no longer the thing I love right yeah I have to share so when I was younger my my first like dream um was that I wanted to be a pop star I was like this is going to happen it's going to be the thing could I sing it all as like a seven old no did I know how to play any instrument absolutely not so my parents were like we'll get you a guitar and we'll get you guitar lessons I like love it started going to guitar lessons second guitar lesson I walk in and I ask the instructor I'm like okay I really love this Boston song More Than A Feeling and I want to learn the guitar riff which is the like classic one that you know is the one that you're the one that you're thinking of it's that one and my guitar teacher was like no that's not in the lesson planned for today yeah um you need to refine Twinkle Twinkle Little Star yeah and so I quit which is like I in hindsight I I'm don't think that I'm a person who is a quitter but I think that that and like it's funny to joke about like oh I didn't get to do what I want so I quit but I do think that there's something to exactly what you were just saying with like taking the creativity out of something that was like I'm not doing this to be proficient at Guitar I'm not doing this to be able to point at what keys are on a piano I'm doing this to get lost in it exactly and to enjoy exactly and that's the whole point is you know you're not trying to perform for anyone you're just performing for yourself and I feel like if you can you know have some sort of Outlet whether that's music or writing or painting I think you know everyone should have an art Outlet is what I think regardless of what you do or what you're passionate about workwise yeah so two follow-up questions there which feel free to answer in tandem or not but one why art specifically why is it art that helps people with that and two how would you even Define art then because I think a lot of people like it's very easy to look at Art and say like oh it's painting it's drawing it's music it's like the Fine Arts right but then you could also say well um there's an art in mowing the lawn right like that could be Artful for someone so why why art and what are the parameters that you would put on Art that's an excellent question because I you know mowing the lawn could be an art I'm sure people have done that before I mean you can cut it a certain way and I I've seen even cutting bushes can make that a I just think there's something about uh expressing yourself that I think really only art can do um and that's with expressing yourself there's some factor of Creation in that where you're creating a product whether that's a song or you know a sculpture or a painting a photography something like that um and there's just that aspect that you're just you know cre creting something that you wouldn't otherwise would or you know at work or you know yeah something like that at least that's how I view it and um and by creating something you're kind of releasing some internalized feelings that maybe you can release other ways yeah um but at least that's just how I think about it totally I think it's interesting to think about it's almost a dichotomy but I think it makes a lot of sense in the way you're talking about it that it's both expressing something that exists within you but it is also creating something new so it is like both generative but also like reflective of something that's already there yeah which is interesting but I think correct me if I'm wrong I do not want to put words in your mouth one of the things that I think is so powerful about what you're saying too is that it's like um certain you can't put words to certain things right right like even in you trying to describe it it's like well it's just this it's this thing where it's like creating something new and something you wouldn't normally do and it's just like cathartic it's hard to literally just even put that into words of that experience but we all know what that is that's right and so if you can't put it into words put it into song put it into paint or you know whatever that's exactly right yeah it's it's just it's a way of expressing yourself that's not talking or that's I don't think you could to put a label on Art but it's just you know yeah it's whatever you want to make it yeah no I love that so also you mentioned kind of in in your art and expression it's music and you said that your brothers kind of gave you a hard time about like oldies and that kind of stuff um talk to me a little bit more about growing up so you said you spent a lot of time Outdoors which I think is also very much like spending time in nature does a similar thing that art does too like there's something connected there um and had like a very like physical but also nature oriented childhood talk to me more about that and how you think it's you you use the word roots everyone has their Roots so talk to me about your your roots what what do those actually look like so I think there a couple ways so I'm from Colorado so obviously nature is a huge part of my background uh I grew up you know 30 minutes from a ski resort I grew up an hour from some of you know the best hiking biking in in um probably the nation I would say it's not um the world if not the world yeah yeah so that was such a big part of growing UPS just having the outdoors right there yeah and there is something very very cathartic and releasing of just going out camping you know even if it's solo um and just being able to go back to I don't know just complete peace I think there's something and not to say that you can't find that down here I think you can find it anywhere but uh there's just something about that and and it's it's always a piece of me I think it shapes my interest I think it shapes my music tastes I think it it shapes my thoughts certainly so I think just having that outdoor you know backdrop has been a huge impact in in my life I I love the use of the word backdrop like cuz cuz that's me being a theater kid immediately go to like the backdrop on a stage right but to use it as an analogy like the backdrop on a stage informs so much of what is going on and it tells the audience about um like the tone of the scene and the vibe And the emotions and all of that and so it's like to have nature as that backdrop and use the word peace um and I agree with you that like it is something that you can find anywhere you can find within yourself yeah but having nature as the backdrop it's probably easier to go into nature and access it right like it removes some of the distraction there um but I do want to make sure that we talk about your 9 to-5 too your desk job CU it's such a big part of our daily lives so business school business yeah and then real estate yeah talk to me about it yeah of course so I think with real estate it's something I discovered while I was in business school at SMU so like I said I had no idea what I wanted to do but you know my dad was he worked in finance he was a financial adviser and so he would always tell me you know go into business go to business school and so I was like well be okay yeah that's right yeah yeah so I you know I said okay I mean I've I'm okay with numbers yeah I you know I have general interest for it so I went to business school and and that was one of the classes I took was real estate and one of the things that Drew it to me just generally was that unlike you know other businesses you know Finance or accounting it just was something that I felt was really tangible like buildings like you know everyone has a home or an apartment or you know even like a libraries you know Office Buildings I always just love the fact that you could uh you know create something walk into it you know and and just touch it I guess where where at least a lot of my friends and and people I know in in different business IND Industries and finance you can there's not that tangibility to it right um and and I I couldn't tell you what an option was or or some of those you know Wall Street terms so you know that that just didn't really interest me so um so the company I work for you know they uh they build apartment buildings they build um you know single family homes and and um they they just you know they're focused on completely residental like I said which uh was really interesting to me too because I I just have a big interest in providing housing for people that's obviously a huge problem in in society today so that's one of the things our company does is we we're building housing uh we're building rental properties for people to live um to hopefully you know make housing a little more affordable I love that um that is really important yeah I also totally understand the feeling of tangibility being important cuz I do think one of the things that makes so many like common jobs today feel like disconnected is because you don't get that full circle feeling of like I've done something today and you know I actually I was uh doing some research after like of course seeing a Tik Tok and I'm like oh I want to learn more about this um but about how like now we've started to manufacture like traditional experiences like the same way humans used to wake up with the sunrise now I have an alarm clock that turns the lights on slowly to mimic the actual Sunrise right like we' found ways to artificially create the things that we know are good for us MH um or like you have those Pokey mats instead of walking barefoot right yeah yeah all of that stuff and I think very much like similarly a hard day work of something that used to be like manual labor it does something in your body like after you go to the gym and it's like I did something that's right I did something and so I have to imagine that that's part of the tangibility too where it's like you can walk into a house or an apartment building and say I did something exactly I was part of this that's such a leading question yeah you're right no and you're exactly right it's it's you can see you can feel it it's and and the value that you've created there not just for yourself for the personal reasons like you mentioned of the Fulfillment but just also for other people I mean um it's very important cuz like I said everywhere everyone needs somewhere to live yeah so well I got to be honest anytime I hear real estate of course my like flags are like ooh what kind of real estate are we talking about right cuz it's like you you don't know what um you know there's the the finance bro memes and all of that there's a lot to it why affordable housing I I totally agree with you that it's a really important issue to be addressed but i' love to hear what that means to you it means a lot to me um because well for personal reasons as someone who's you know lightly testing the housing market just because I would like to buy a home in the next five years sure uh it's pretty impossible now because uh you know it's just so expensive homes are and um and then you look at the alternative you know renting which everyone at least I know my age has an apartment um that's also getting to the point where you can't you know you're spending so much on of your income on rent that yeah you have nothing else for food groceries or right well and you're spending so much on rent how do you save up money to eventually buy ex people are like it's better to pay for a mortgage than to pay for rent it's like I don't even have a down payment like I can't even yeah and the monthly payment would be yeah so much that you wouldn't be able to buy anything else so I think that's personally one of the reasons why I think you know affordable housing is just so important yeah um for for you know people our age but also people who who you know maybe didn't save as much and they're later on in life and need somewhere to live um and then you look at the other side you know there's there's underrepresented communities who you know wouldn't have access to the same housing we do right in Dallas um or where we live in Dallas and so there's sections like that where people just you know even if they did have more money they couldn't find the right housing so yeah it's kind of a balance where you want to have enough housing for everyone but at the same time make sure everyone can afford to live there yeah totally well and it's hard because everything at the end of the day at least here comes down to a business and making money like any good or service we participate in does have to like profit someone but I think that there's something really um person intriguing to me about companies that are almost like I I don't know the inner workings of your company but um taking a cut in profits not that it's not profitable or a good company but it's like in trying to build affordable housing I would imagine that it's not nearly as much as like a huge real estate conglomerate can like build up and like right but it's like the um intention behind it is more important than that and it's like can we pay our employees are they doing well like do they have good benefits like are we doing all the things sure yeah because in America everything runs on money but to be able to have some balance there with serving other people still is I just find that really admirable yeah and it gives more meaning to it I mean yeah you can make a like you said a real estate conglomerate and make a lot of money but you know you go home at the end of the day and you have to look yourself in the mirror and if that's the the businessman you want to be and if that's the business you want to run I mean that's yeah we all go home to to an apartment or a house and but it is just you looking in the mirror that's right you need to enjoy your work and you know and that's just not that's not just real estate that's everything yeah you know you want to have a positive impact and leave the world better than when you came here so that is has been the unifying thread between any interview any podcast anything within this work that I have done every the only thing that everyone has in common is that when we start talking about these things that mean something and matter and what purpose is it always comes back to well you want to help other people yeah why do you think that is I don't have a good answer for it except for well clearly it's human nature but yeah I mean I think you're you hit it on the head it is human nature I think you know we live in we live in a society and so you want to help you want to help each other and and make sure everyone is you know living all right and isn't you know struggling to pay rent or or groceries or anything so um but I think it's also it's just deep down it's the right thing to do and there I don't know how you would explain that whether it's you know people have their religious re reasons people have you know their own moral compass but um it's the right thing to do and when you do it you feel fulfilled and that you're MH it's reassuring I would say too um that you're doing the right thing reassuring excuse me in

that like when you get that good feeling it's reassuring to be like I am doing the right thing I am on a good path or reassuring in the sense that like people do good things humans are good what like or d none of the above something else what is the reassurance mean I think it's both cuz especially nowadays we can see how bad people can be yeah pretty much everywhere you turn and so yeah I think there's a piece of it saying that there still is good in the world um and if I can make a small contribution to that then that's that makes me happy but it's also you know just personally like you said it's it's when you feel that way when you can actually you know make someone's life a little better even if it's small you know I think it's just a a vicious Cy not a vicious cycle but a the opposite of a the opposite of a vicious cycle yeah what's it say kindness is contagious yeah yeah yeah so that's something you know I I've always tried to do and a lot of that um came from the way I was raised my parents were really strong on that belief that you know be kind because um you know you never know what someone else is going through and yeah got to hear for each other so so that brings another interesting question which again no good answer for it but I'd love your take um comes a lot from the way you're raised I think a lot of us our moral compass and values and ethics are influenced by the way we were raised the experiences we've gone through of course it'd be impossible for those things not to impact you but then that begs the question nature over nurture how much do you think that impulse for you to want to do good in the world is also just instinctual you have brothers um and I would have to imagine I I don't know them as well as you but they have a similar drive to be good people and care but um in any way that y'all are different why do you think that is and is the drive to help something that is instinctual or is it purely nurture that's and that's it's a interesting question because I think you you would say it's nurture at least I would think it's mostly nurture but I think think it's also you know a moral compass that you develop at a young age um and I think you know used to talk to a lot of people who find that moral compass through religion you find people who find that moral compass through you know the way they were raised and and even religion wasn't involved but I think that's developed at a really young age um and vice versa if it's not developed at a young age or if it's you know maybe a bad Mor Compass if you had bad role models growing up I think that that sticks with you unless you make a you know a big effort to change it um yeah what would not this is just pure curiosity um what would that big effort look like if someone were to be like I'm I am ready to change like perhaps um you know you you hear stories about people who are in bad living situations growing up and were taught like Fight Fire with Fire you have to step on people to get ahead like very much that mentality but you also have people who go against that and say like I want to be better than that what do you think that is that pushes someone towards that is it just someone stumbling across podcast like this when when you know better you do better mhm or I I think it has to come and it could you know not say like pod not to be no no I definitely self congratulatory but I can see it and uh I think it has to be a personal something that hits you personally um and that it would have to be something you know pretty mind openening if you were if that's so ingrained in you um and I don't have any you know examples that I can think of off the top of my head but in similar situations I think it's something that you know you really have to look in a mirror and you really have to examine your life and think about things differently um you have to adjust your there's a there's a word for it it's um address your Paradigm and so I think the Paradigm is pretty equal to the the back we're talking about the moral compass yeah then it's the way you view everything in the world so if you have a paradigm where you view the world cynically negatively uh your actions will reflect that and and it's easy to to judge people and and to criticize them without really truly knowing their Paradigm but um kind of a tangent to in order to change that it does take a big effort Paradigm Shift Paradigm Shift yeah yeah exactly I'm like the phrase comes from that I know I love that cuz I've never really thought of that in like the singular phrase Paradigm but that is exactly what it is and I was actually talking about this earlier today in that it's so easy to judge someone when you don't know them but you listen to someone's story and it's almost impossible not to have empathy for them like there's um the caller daddy podcast with which I I don't listen to regularly but I do find a lot of the episodes very interesting especially I think Alex Cooper has gotten to be a very good interviewer over time and she has so many guests on that I'm like not a fan of this person and then I listen to it and I'm like I'm a fan now yeah like I know who they are I understand them um and yeah so I just agree so much with what you're saying about like you don't know what someone's going through and you don't know their paradigm you don't know their worldview you don't know what's gone into that and informed that and how their moral compass has informed that or like what um pieces of the pie are there without digging deeper yeah and it's you know candidly it's very easy to make those judgments without F knowing and I think on on the other side it does take some you know discipline to to recognize when you're judging prematurely I guess and totally understanding not wanting people to treat you like like it also even goes back to the golden rule of like treat others the way you want to be treated exactly um I think I also want to ask kind of to return to this question of um why there's this huge motivation for serving other people and helping other people um being like the thing that always comes up in these conversations how would you define meaning and like living a meaningful life mhm it's the big question but feel free to talk about it until we get there I wish there was just a one word answer or one sentence answer but I think it varies for who you are um I think the reason that comes up in so many of your conversations is probably because that's one of the top ones that people find meaning is by helping others um but I think you know there's people out there who that's not necessarily the case but yeah um depends on your Paradigm I I suppose yeah yeah no but I I I I think it's uh for a couple reasons I mean helping people it it gives you you know peace of mind and I think leaving the world better than when you came here is is something everyone can get behind and so yeah I think that would be AIG big part of it I love that couple um quickfire questions that's not the word for it what do you call them um is it quick fire I think it's quickfire is that yeah F rapid fire rapid fire that's I'm looking for couple rapid fire questions um they're rapid fire questions they may not have rapid fire answers that's okay um what do you think happens when we die I think we go to heaven okay yeah so are do you are can I ask are you Christian I'm Christian yes okay talk to me about that sure uh I guess more specifically I was I was raised Catholic um but over the last six or so years I've kind of taken a more broad belief to it um I don't know how you know familiar are with Catholicism or any of the den denominations but um you know there's in my opinion they're way too angry at each other when they're essentially believing the same thing but yeah um yeah it's something you know that I was raised with I um I went to to a Catholic school for 9 years growing up and so uh that kind of set the foundation um and it's something I carry with me to this day yeah um I think it's you know it it it brings a sense of comfort knowing that you know there's more out there why do you think the broad do the broad truly come from this like there's this broader umbrella of just like Christian belief that is like that's we don't need to be nitpicky with it is that where that kind of came from for you or is there another um like element to like maybe this curiosity piece within religion that broadened that approach yeah I would say it's to your first point it's being nitpicky I think you you lose sight of the big picture when you get so wrapped up in the details and I do think that's happened in a lot of the denominations we see in and even own own denominations are splitting into two I think that happen with Methodist um and so I think yeah with that you lose sight of the bigger picture and I think if you could boil Christian Christianity down to one thing it's you know Jesus Christ and that's that's the the common factor across all denomination and so I think people really focus on the wrong thing a little too much when they when they get into Christianity I was going to ask you what the bigger picture is and then you wouldn't had it answered it so that's perfect so when you say I love that I said we're going to do rapid fire questions then I have all of these followups um but there are other ones that we'll get to um when you say Jesus is the common denominator obviously historically that is the common denominator that differentiates um Christianity from

um from any other monistic religion yes thank you thank you thank you

um what does that figure archetype mean to you because I think of course there's the well you walk in the steps of Jesus you um try and model your life after him that's very much the teachings of um Christianity but what does that archit type figure is it something like that are there other things what does that mean to you that's that's a very good question that's I'm sure been asked thousands and thousands of times yeah I'm not sure if I have the answer either uh to me specifically it's it's a sense of comfort from belief um I mean yeah this whole conversation started with with what happens after you die I think that's a huge um reason that a lot of people find so much comfort in religion uh because that's one of you know the biggest mysteries that we have and yeah and having an answer for that is is um obviously a very comforting thing but I think it's also just daily life uh you know life can be hard life can be stressful and everyone's dealing with with their own you know situation so having something to look to having someone you know a savior that you know is bigger than yourself and that you can put your your trust in and and put your problems in so to speak that's that that helps a lot of people yeah truly well and to be able to offload right it's like you don't have to juggle things in your own mind exactly as much which is very um helpful and I think that um that is something that like just religion as a whole offers to people right um and I think even for me I would I would probably identify at this point is like agnostic but not in the I don't know just in the I believe in a God in a higher power um but an organized religion I haven't found one that is like a perfect fit for me um but I think that even in having that belief like you said in something bigger than myself in being a piece of a bigger hole in the interconnectedness of me to fellow humans believing in something bigger than myself mhm does offer me that like I I totally relate to what you're saying of this I'm not on my own even when you're alone there there's a difference between being alone and loneliness and a lot of that like it's so funny so I was raised Christian MH and almost no one in I say almost no one me and my parents have all had kind of our own Journeys with religion but faith has always been a really big part of whatever that is and I think that faith gets um like you say faith and people automatically think um like traditional Faith right and I'm like but faith is just such a good word in general right because it offers all of these beautiful things like you're talking about so I I don't know I just I really appreciate that insight and I think being a part of something bigger than oneself there's something about that that's con connected to serving other people too like knowing that you are not the center of everything also gives you perspective enough to be able to appreciate others that's right yeah I mean if if you don't and you don't have a community I think you know a lot of ego is driven by that if you just think of yourself in every way um and I think to your point yeah having a community where you care for each other and um you support each other that's that's a huge driver for for you know churches religion oh that it's like the number yeah that's yeah 100% um and you know one other thing too is is um prayer yeah which I don't think that's exclusive to Christianity or religion in general right um it's something that you know after a long day or in the morning it's it's very grounding thing to do I try to do it as much as possible uh and that even if you're not you know praying to anyone just having a moment by yourself and just grounding and and taking a step back from all of life's you know yeah fun fun problems all the really fun issues that we deal with yeah but no I think that's the grounding is such a good word and also like just I'm such a language person that I feel like I just point out words that people use but I love the choice of words because I feel like it reveals so much Insight but M you having this um background in nature and exploration and like the physicality of that as being a part of your upbringing and the the feeling of roots and grounding it's all of those things just feel very fundamental to like the energy that you bring and so it's just very much that peaceful presence but I think that's also very much what higher power offers people and what religion offers people is that sense of safety Comfort belief longing yeah and I think that's really beautiful and you know one other thing to add to that just on the flip side it's not at least for me it's not usually either a one and done type thing yeah it's something you're constantly working on um kind of like what I said earlier I'm I'm someone who loves the tangibility of things and I love to pick something up and hold it and that's how I know it and so that's something that you don't get with with you know a religion or or you know belief system cuz it does take a leap of faith and totally um if anything though I think that's good that is not done because then you start asking questions you start learning more about both you know the belief system but also about yourself and yeah it encourages that Curiosity yeah and you go the curi also the leap of faith is also uncomfortable which is the discomfort that pushes you to do more right like full circles yeah yeah I mean like it it's it's all connected um I thank you for sharing that it's vulnerable to talk about those things but I think it's important it is so thank you um next rapid fire question yeah next one we're number one done yeah

aliens what what what's the question just believe in them no believe in them so you're unlocking my other very Niche interest which is astronomy and Aliens I I love astronom not know that okay um yes but not okay Ali not astrology though astrology not as much no you're you probably like the the hard science side of like constellation star solar system okay want to make sure I'm clear yes please continue um to answer your question yes I think there is there has to be life out there um just looking at numbers alone you know we're on a small grain of sand the statistical likelihood of something else living yes it's yeah yeah it's pretty much guaranteed right I think the only other question you would ask is okay so if something's out there you know do they exist simultaneously with us or if you know there could have been something that was around you know a billion years ago but they just got wiped out so yeah um I don't know I think if there was something and it's probably not going to line up with where we are right now now um but yeah I think there has to be I just I I tend to agree with you but I think I just think it's interesting ghosts okay yeah so you've already heard my stories about the oh my gosh I have okay yeah yeah yes to those so okay so for for our listeners Tommy's apartment is haunted it is yeah without a doubt even if you don't you know believe in that kind of stuff it's your brother would be having to play the most insane practical joke on you for it not to be oh yeah like legitimized because correct me if I'm wrong but there was like one circumstance where a broom like lifted up and like slammed across the room into a wall right yes yes it was a broom and um you know I'm not some crazy conspir conspirac the you know I just and that's why I would just calm at the time being but you know I it was midnight I I got out of my bed to go to the thermostat to to turn it down and uh the broom that was against the wall slid across the wall and you know into the living room and so uh that was odd but what made it weirder was that I heard uh footsteps walking around and so my girlfriend was in my bedroom at the time Holly and she she heard footsteps as well and so I thought I was just in my mind I like I'm tired it's whatever yeah I'm being yeah and then she was like were you walking right over there cuz I have two doors to my bedroom I came into one and uh I said no no I wasn't I was right here I did hear something there I don't think either of us slept at night CU that was nope absolutely not so these I don't know if you call them paranormal experiences I don't I don't know what you like to title them as but these experiences do you find because I also think ghosts in the context of religion is very interesting um because you have a lot of religious people who are like well of course there's ghost there's an afterlife like it's Souls like we believe in souls and they' passed but then you have other religious people who are like absolutely not no such thing as ghosts all beings who have passed on are either in heaven or hell but then of course you have people who believe in purgatory are ghosts and Purgatory right like what what is the lore or belief system that upholds that before these experiences did you have a belief system about ghosts how you just not thought about it and then did these experiences affirm that or change your belief system or had you just like not thought about it it's like oh now I have this now that's part yeah yeah no I I think that is a a fundamental you know Strife that you have between religion and ghost because it's not supported by religion per se and um because of what you said because there's you know there's a heaven in hell right um there's nowhere in the Bible or it says you know there's ghosts on Earth yeah yeah it's not so how do you contend with that and it's uh you can't really I mean it's weird it's one of those things where you know there's a chance that they're not real and maybe just a coincidence that happened um but you know you hear enough stories and you know I've I've spoken with a lot of people about this you know my own family um my mom you know has seen similar things and um interesting both my parents have but it's also more on on a personal level too like I I like to use the term Spirits rather than ghosts because it's more personal and and I think you know you can have you know maybe a family member visit you have heard stories about that um where they show up in your bedroom when you're sleeps you know yeah um they're not haunting you or anything so I think I think putting that lens on it makes a little easier to totally to balance both that and religion I completely agree and I think that there is this like haunted hous to ghosts that um makes it feel much less real and much more like oh you believe in that but when you think about it as like not everyone believes in a soul or mind or spark or whatever you want to call them that Spirit um of the human being I think a lot of people do I think even a lot of atheists have a sense of I am more than just my body um but science hasn't really caught up to what is that how does something in tangible interact with something tangible we don't really know but I think all of us have that experience of like what is that itness that is me and we were talking about my grandma right before this yeah one of my only paranormal experiences I've had was the night of her passing um I had a dream about her and she like came and talked to me for a bit and sat with me and I didn't think anything of it it was just like whatever woke up the next day was getting ready for whatever I was supposed to do that day like normal until my dad came and told me the news and it was like well now that seems that timing is very interesting right that this is like something that's happening and I yeah there is

something that does make that much more personal and instead of like this heej spooky ookie even though it is like very like jarring when it happens but but I think it also brings a level of comfort maybe that's the experience you had but it it brings closure in many cases um and I think you know good intentions with with that those kind of experiences and whatever Spirits there are right I don't know what the good intention was was throwing a broom across my but reminding you you need to sweep maybe yeah maybe maybe it was a little too Dusty yeah which I don't doubt that yeah yeah goodness I I that's one of my normal rapid fire questions and I forgot that we've literally had conversations about that before that's so funny okay that's a great time my final two questions as we're rounding out the end of the podcast one in light of our conversation and everything we've chatted about and haven't chatted about is there anything that you want to return to anything you want to add anything you want to clarify or anything that we just have not talked about that you're like I got to talk about this I want to throw this out there this is space for any of that yeah um I guess the only thing I would add kind of back to our point about you know prayer and grounding we didn't really touch on you know the the mental health benefits which I think is um very important I think that's you know a big crisis in today is mental health I think there's could be a variety of reasons for that sure um but you know it's it is a crisis regardless and so I think you know having a system in place and whether that's you know Finding value through helping others or if that's pushing pushing your boundaries to find some sort of meaning um having something like that a good support system is is you know I think probably the best way that you can keep your mental health up and keep your physical health up and um I think that's the last you know leg of this whole you know circle is just you know having all those aspects in place so that you can you know be the best version of yourself possible and live a fulfilling and peaceful life yeah yeah thank you for adding that I I completely agree and I think that it is a crisis and absolutely something that should be a part of the conversation so yeah you know remove the stigma CU I I think it is it's very easy to not want to talk about that and true yeah well and even someone I I've been in therapy for 13 years and it's like even like now saying that it's like how is someone going to react it's like just throwing it out there is so important so thank you yeah of course and yet you know just one more thought on it you never it's it's it's saddening to see you know the people that effects that you never would have guessed yeah um you know people that take their lives and you're just left wondering you know why you know them of all people would do that um and so that's just I guess goes back to just treat everyone with kindness and yeah you just really never know yeah well I I mean truly the the full circles in this episode really have been profound in the you don't know someone's story MH get curious about it right yeah um don't pass judgment but be kind to yourself and in making meaning that way like be kind to others right and it's It Feels So basic but it's it very much is the Golden Rule and when we were talking about um your religious background and belief system um you know the big picture is Jesus and walk like Jesus and the thing that I've always drawn from Christianity as really beautiful is the Core teaching of love one another as yourself exactly it's like that is truly just sacred Simplicity that's right right in even if you don't you know truly follow the religion I think just the what it teaches is yeah is very good there's absolutely lots to learn there that's right yeah yeah that's great last question to kind of tie a bow on the conversation is what is one word to describe how you're feeling right now right now uh content I would say good this was a great conversation I I've really enjoyed the conversation I feel honored that I was able to open up the new season I I'm honored that you shared all of this with me and this medium and platform so thank you so much thank you and and I'm glad it's it's nice to be able to talk about things openly and and it's it's for refreshing I'm so glad and it's it's like the deepest pleasure ever so thank you